Can I send in unpasteurized cider with dry ice?

I have an uncle that is halfway across the country and he really wants to try my Apple cedar cherry cider but I had a problem with pasteurizing and had tons and tons of bombs! They're cold and I don't have regular bottles just going off mind you, they went off in the hot water so I think there decently stable if you don't do that kind of thing. My question is can I pack one in dry ice and send one Fed ex or UPS overnight or second day it to him?

P.s. Keep in mind I'm not asking as far as what is allowed, I am asking if the bottle will make it and not explode...

I worked for a company developing packaging to keep payloads at given temps.

Let me see if I can get an answer for you on how much ice you need. Twelve ounce bottle? How much does it weigh?

After some thought skip the DI. It will make your cider expand beyond the confines of the container. Take 2 similarly weighted, water based gel packs (the kind you use to ice sports injuries) and freeze one for a day or so, refrigerate the other. Get box. Put bubble wrap/newspaper in bottom. Put frozen gel pack in box. Put refrigerated in next. Put cider on top. Fill voids with more bubble/newspaper. Insulate cider from touching cardboard (ambient temp). Ship 1/2 day.

You're welcome.

goo-gone said:

I worked for a company developing packaging to keep payloads at given temps.

Let me see if I can get an answer for you on how much ice you need. Twelve ounce bottle? How much does it weigh?

After some thought skip the DI. It will make your cider expand beyond the confines of the container. Take 2 similarly weighted, water based gel packs (the kind you use to ice sports injuries) and freeze one for a day or so, refrigerate the other. Get box. Put bubble wrap/newspaper in bottom. Put frozen gel pack in box. Put refrigerated in next. Put cider on top. Fill voids with more bubble/newspaper. Insulate cider from touching cardboard (ambient temp). Ship 1/2 day.

You're welcome.

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I don't think I can ship 1/2 day from California to Ohio?

I'm gonna go ahead and say shipping a known bottle bomb is a terrible idea no matter how careful you are.

IffyG said:

I'm gonna go ahead and say shipping a known bottle bomb is a terrible idea no matter how careful you are.

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Why don't you guys ever pay attention closely to the thread and actually read it!!!!
They are not blowing up on their own!
They have a lot of carbonation in them true but as I said ABOVE I put them in 180° water for a while and that's when they blew up....

If they stay cold They will be fine that's why I'm asking if dry ice will keep them cold long enough..

(You can tell right away on this forum what guys paid attention in class and what guys didn't)

BadgerBrigade said:

I don't think I can ship 1/2 day from California to Ohio?

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I meant 1 or 2 day. Not a half day.

DO NOT USE DRY ICE. Do what I said. DI is way too cold and will freeze your package (heh).

So... you're proposing that in order to give your improperly pasteurized cider to someone else, you'd like to knowingly put a third party (shipping company) at risk? There's no way I'd feel good about that. If the bottle goes off during shipping you could seriously injure somebody. Is that worth it just so your uncle can try your cider?

I know you're saying they don't explode at cold temperatures, but the fact that you're worried about it is enough to make this a horrible idea. A bottle that explodes when it's brought up to room temperature is certainly a big safety risk.

I paid attention in all my classes. I would never knowingly put anyone else's health at risk just to send a bottle of homebrew across the country.

I'm assuming these wont explode at ambient (below 100F this time of year).

I figured if they were on ice and shipped on ice it would be just as safe as it is in my fridge....
One day with ice packed all around it in a thick box...

Apparently this is more dangerous then I'm figuring if all you guys are so freaked out.

Maybe I should just open a few bottles and put them in a plastic 2 L?

But I still don't see a problem if there are completely on ice?

BadgerBrigade said:

But I still don't see a problem if there are completely on ice?

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Call up FedEx, and say "I have something that might explode if it gets warm, but don't worry, I'm going to put some ice packs in there. You guys don't mind sending that across the country for me, do you?"

You really don't see that as a problem? To make this even remotely ethical you'd have to disclose what you're doing to everyone that would come in contact with the package, and hope they're OK with it. Which they won't be.

zachattack said:

So... you're proposing that in order to give your improperly pasteurized cider to someone else, you'd like to knowingly put a third party (shipping company) at risk? There's no way I'd feel good about that. If the bottle goes off during shipping you could seriously injure somebody. Is that worth it just so your uncle can try your cider?

I know you're saying they don't explode at cold temperatures, but the fact that you're worried about it is enough to make this a horrible idea. A bottle that explodes when it's brought up to room temperature is certainly a big safety risk.

I paid attention in all my classes. I would never knowingly put anyone else's health at risk just to send a bottle of homebrew across the country.

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It's not that I'm worried about it, it's that I'm asking for feedback because I don't know..
Don't paint me out to be inconsiderate pal!
If I know that it could put someone at risk of course I'm not going to do it!!!

A lot of you guys cannot answer a question without getting all frazzled.... THESE ARE QUESTIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF LEARNING... I don't know so I am going to ask and I don't think you guys should act like I'm an idiot or an a**hole because I don't know...

BadgerBrigade said:

Why don't you guys ever pay attention closely to the thread and actually read it!!!!
They are not blowing up on their own!
They have a lot of carbonation in them true but as I said ABOVE I put them in 180° water for a while and that's when they blew up....

If they stay cold They will be fine that's why I'm asking if dry ice will keep them cold long enough..

(You can tell right away on this forum what guys paid attention in class and what guys didn't)

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I work in a research lab and we get overnight shipments that are supposed to be cold that come in at room temperature (or even hot) to the touch all the time. For us, worst case scenario is our antibody got cooked in transit. Worst case scenario for you is a bottle bomb and someone gets hurt...

If you know they will stay cold, it will probably be OK. The problem is you have absolutely no idea how the package will be handled. It's certainly not a risk I'd be willing to take.

Certainly if there is any risk of the bottle exploding then please dont endanger anyone. I assume the exploding was happening at high heat...

There are 2 things you need to consider:
1) what happens if the bottles get to 100F? If you don't know, maybe you can come up with a way to test it out. This would give you some confidence that if **** goes wrong and the bottles arrive warm, nothing bad will happen.

2) what happens in a low pressure atmosphere? I don't think the stowage for most cargo is temp or pressure controlled. I also don't know how you can test this easily.

IffyG said:

I work in a research lab and we get overnight shipments that are supposed to be cold that come in at room temperature (or even hot) to the touch all the time. For us, worst case scenario is our antibody got cooked in transit. Worst case scenario for you is a bottle bomb and someone gets hurt...

If you know they will stay cold, it will probably be OK. The problem is you have absolutely no idea how the package will be handled. It's certainly not a risk I'd be willing to take.

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I do agree with you I just wish you guys could've been a little easier with explanations. I never would want to get anyone hurt and the reason I posed the thread is because I want to know from people who know & have experience.

I know there are a lot of idiots on this planet who do things like that without thinking about things but if there was any risk at all (which obviously there is) I would not do it.

I appreciate the explanation and I see now the situation as it is...

goo-gone said:

Certainly if there is any risk of the bottle exploding then please dont endanger anyone. I assume the exploding was happening at high heat...

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Yes I had already warm them up with the sink at a pretty hot to the touch temperature then I put them in the 180° water so I think I just put a lot of heat to this situation

The_Dog_42 said:

There are 2 things you need to consider:
1) what happens if the bottles get to 100F? If you don't know, maybe you can come up with a way to test it out. This would give you some confidence that if **** goes wrong and the bottles arrive warm, nothing bad will happen.

2) what happens in a low pressure atmosphere? I don't think the stowage for most cargo is temp or pressure controlled. I also don't know how you can test this easily.

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My sink gets extremely hot to a point where if you even get your finger in for a blip of a second it will burn.... After the bottles got up to room temperature I put them in the sink heated pot to try to get the temperature up a little higher so I would not have to be in the hot bath for as long...
I was going to try about 6 to 8 minutes.
I had a bottle in the bath just fill with water and a meat thermometer in it and it got up to about 130° so I knew I only had a little way to go.... (That was in the sink hot pot and not in the stove hot pot)

I think I'm just over carbonated and I will give this batch a cold crashing and just drink them and try to pasteurize the next batch.

DISCLAIMER: I promise I will not send any unpasteurized bottles guys.....

Put individual bottles in ziplocks. Cover well with foam and tape. If the bottles pop, this will protect the outer (see next sentence) ziplock from being punctured with glass. Put another ziplock around the foam. Better yet, put the foamed bottles in cheap polyethylene screwtop containers. You want the bottles to be able to break without shooting out glass, and without any liquid coming out of the package in transit.

Why were you interested in pasteurizing your cider?

StMarcos said:

Put individual bottles in ziplocks. Cover well with foam and tape. If the bottles pop, this will protect the outer (see next sentence) ziplock from being punctured with glass. Put another ziplock around the foam. Better yet, put the foamed bottles in cheap polyethylene screwtop containers. You want the bottles to be able to break without shooting out glass, and without any liquid coming out of the package in transit.

Why were you interested in pasteurizing your cider?

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Because I did not want the bottles to blow up.... But I think you're right, PET bottles in padded Styrofoam boxes inside thick cardboard would Probably be the ticket.... I just really wish I had caught them earlier so the pasteurizing would have gone well