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Old 12-17-2010, 07:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by vinyl_key View Post
Why do growlers explode when bottle conditioning in them? If they can hold pressure after being filled from a tap, why can't they hold up to carbing?
To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.

Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.

Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.

It really is a no brainer....
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:29 PM   #22
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Just 'cuz I feel like surfacing to stir a pot, I'll say that I keep away from growlers because I don't want to worry about the screw cap. There. Continue.


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Old 12-17-2010, 07:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.

Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.

Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.

It really is a no brainer....
Correct. Also note that you are forcing a gas to dissolve into a liquid, not just "into solution," which may help picture why such pressure is required.

Already carbed beer doesn't produce any pressure to its container beyond atmospheric, unless nucleation takes place.

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Old 12-17-2010, 07:32 PM   #24
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Correct. Also note that you are forcing a gas to dissolve into a liquid, not just "into solution," which may help picture why such pressure is required.

Already carbed beer doesn't produce any pressure to its container beyond atmospheric, unless nucleation takes place.

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Old 12-17-2010, 07:36 PM   #25
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Just 'cuz I feel like surfacing to stir a pot, I'll say that I keep away from growlers because I don't want to worry about the screw cap. There. Continue.


TL
Yup, that's probably the weakest link in the chain. I wonder if that and the neck area near the cap is where it would be more likely to fail at, just like with a mason jar (whose lid is meant to hold vacuum sucked inward, not pressure trying to force outward.

Some of these more fancy growlers with the flip tops might be able to take it, they seem more substantial, and have the mechanism to keep the stopper in place, but honestly, at 30 or more bucks a pop, I sure wouldn't even want to risk them....





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Old 12-18-2010, 06:19 AM   #26
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This is the one here. The photo makes it look thinner than it is due to the lighting. It's thick.

...I can't help myself, "that's what Favre said"
i have 6 of those ive got irish red ale in they are very thick. thick enough i didnt think twice about using them. they are made by/for the califorina glass company in england.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:11 AM   #27
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I have used Dead Guy Ale 1/2 gallon bottles and had no problems. I boil the caps and put them on with pliers

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Old 12-18-2010, 09:42 AM   #28
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Why do growlers explode when bottle conditioning in them? If they can hold pressure after being filled from a tap, why can't they hold up to carbing?
This is because during carbing, the pressure can go above 30 or 40 PSI. I have a thread in the cider forum where I did several tests bottle carbing sweet hard cider. There is allot of data there if your interested.

I have a bottle with a pressure gauge on it. I recorded pressures during the carbing process. This is how the data was generated. I also recorded pressures while pasteurizing the cider.

I recently bottled some lager I made. I also filled my gauge bottle and my lower pressure gauge bottle pegged at 35 PSI as that was the limit of the gauge. It probably ended up in the 40's, but no way to tell for sure.



When we bottle condition beer, we are really simulating force carbing like the keg folks do. We cause a ferment by adding sugar. This creates a high pressure in the bottle. CO2 doesn't like to dissolve in a warm liquid. We then put some bottles in the fridge. The temperature of the liquid drops and the CO2 then begins to dissolve in the liquid.

It seems to take several days at fridge temperatures for the CO2 to fully saturate the liquid for a maximum saturation for that liquid temperature.

While the CO2 is moving into the liquid, the pressure slowly drops. I've monitored this process as well with the pressure gauge.

Pressures go way higher than folks think while bottle conditioning. In the following data, I carbed sweet hard cider and stopped the carbing and then pasteurized the cider when the bottle was at 22 PSI. My Lager went above 35 PSI. The data doesn't show the extremes the pressure rises with beer as I stopped the cider at 22 PSI, but it would have continued if i hadn't stopped it.

The gauge bottle has a nice side effect, it tells you when your bottles are conditioned as the pressure rise stops. I then throw them in the Fridge to cold condition for several days before I open. The gauge also tells you when they are carbed as the pressure drop stops. Pretty basic really.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/bott...review-205862/

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Last edited by RukusDM; 12-18-2010 at 09:52 AM. Reason: add picture.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:42 AM   #29
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Thanks Rukus for your research. I still don't get why we have to explain this process- WHy people can't seem to get that there is a difference between carbonating beer, and carbed beer......But at least we have your data now.

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Old 12-18-2010, 11:55 AM   #30
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Thanks Rukus for your research. I still don't get why we have to explain this process- WHy people can't seem to get that there is a difference between carbonating beer, and carbed beer......But at least we have your data now.
Thanks Rev...This testing was done with Sweet Hard Cider carbing in mind, however it still would apply to Beer.

There are pressurization tables on the internet that show the pressures needed to carb to specific volumes of CO2. I used those and Priming Calculators to come up with the sugar content needed.

The gauge should verify what you calculated for priming is giving you want you want.

I use one of these bottles per batch as a indication of where I am in the conditioning process. You won't have to chill and then open a test bottle frequently to see if your done or not. You have data that tells you when you are.

You can get a gauge on amazon for about 8 bucks and just use a pop bottle. I've reused my bottles several times without issues.

FWIW
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