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Old 11-13-2009, 05:42 AM   #1
Brooda
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Default the boil looked really "funky" in the boil pot

Hi all... We just made a Bell's 2 Hearted clone and had something weird happen...the brew shop in town suggested we halve the steeped liquid and then add back the removed half at the 10 min till end of boil. We separated half of the steep into a separate pot prior to boil, set aside, and re-added with 10 minutes left of the boil. Unfortunately, it had cooled to nearly room temp when we added it back into the boil, which made it stop boiling. We had to bring it all back up to a boil, which took about 10 mins, and start the last 10-minutes of boil time after that. There was a hop add at 10 till and then again at 5 mins till. After cooling the wort, it was very strangely stratified and cloudy; looked like nothing we'd seen before. When we poured it into the Primary, there was a decent amount of hops on the bottom, but what we poured into the Primary was real milky looking. Will this settle out in the Primary and not get siphoned off into Secondary? I used an Irish Moss tablet at the 10 min till moment, not sure if that's pertinent. Did I confuse anyone?? Thanks in advance! Brooda

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Old 11-13-2009, 06:10 AM   #2
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I wouldn't worry too much about the pause in the boiling. Your hop utilization for the bittering hops should be fine. I'm assuming you did a 60 minute, 10 minute and 5 minute hop bill and the 60 minute addition would be affected very little by the extra 10 minutes. The malt characteristics will have little to no change from the extra 10 minutes.

I would imagine that what you saw with the "stratified and cloudy" wort was a cold break. It literally looks like someone dumped cream of mushroom soup in the wort. Don't worry about the hops and extra material that made it into the primary, it will settle out and you can rack off of it to your bottling bucket or to a secondary if you choose that route.

Lastly, welcome the HBT!

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Old 11-13-2009, 03:23 PM   #3
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+1 cold break. Anything added to the boil should be added slowly in the future to keep the temp up. You will be fine

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Old 11-13-2009, 03:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooda View Post
We separated half of the steep into a separate pot prior to boil, set aside, and re-added with 10 minutes left of the boil.
little confused about this. are you sure the LHBS guy didn't mean to use half the extract? its known as late extract addition. the idea is that the last half of the extract wont darken during the boil and the finished beer will be a proper color. if you steeped speciality grain and separated half of that, then i would say you didn't get a proper hot break because the missing half never got hot enough.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:09 PM   #5
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Hi Tipsy/all... Yeah, I called the LHBS guy and he said he meant for me to use half of the extract. DOH! So, after going through the process with him, he explained that the hops need more water than sugar to attain a high efficiency. This is why you only add half of the liquid malt extract in the beginning and then the remaining amount near the end of the boil. Makes sense now that I understand it... I'll refer to it as "Late Extract Addition" from now on. One thing I didn't mention in my original post was that after we split up the tea, we added back a gallon of clean water at that time and actually brought 2 gallons of liquid to a boil before adding the full amount of malt extract. LHBS seemed to think that would help, reasoning that the hops were added to a more diluted water/malt ratio (2gal tea&water mix/10# malt) than if we'd have added the hops to only 1 gallon of tea/10#malt. He said the hop schedule would be off, but that the end result should still be drinkable and possibly even really good. I think we'll call it "3 Hearted...

I see the term "hot break" above...can someone explain what that means? The missing half got to boiling (albeit for only 10 mins), but it did boil.

Scut.....We're going to ride it out and since we're going to secondary for 14 days and then another 7 for dry hopping, I'm hoping the Irish Moss, yeast and gravity will cause the beer to clear up after 3 weeks. Thanks for the encouragement.

You know what really sucks?? Running out of a keg before the next one is ready...

Don & Laura

Any thoughts as to siphon techniques when going from primary to secondary? Should we trail the bottom of the siphon just under the beer surface level to avoid pulling any muck that may be nearer to the bottom and then stopping an inch or so short of the cake to help reduce what we transfer? Or will/should it not matter much after a week in Primary?

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Old 11-14-2009, 05:25 AM   #6
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Brooda,

Your LHBS dude is right in that the higher the gravity (sugar content) of the wort the less hop utilization you will get. In other words the more sugar that's in the wort the less hop bitterness you will get for a given volume of hops. However, this really isn't a big deal and seems to have caused you some difficulty with your technique with good reason. If it were me I wouldn't worry about it in the future and would simply add the entire extract from the start as I see more problems with a "late extract addition" than benefits.

The hot break is seen after the wort begins to boil. At the start of the boil the proteins within the wort coagulate and start to form larger and larger clumps as the boil progresses. When the proteins initally start to coagulate you get foaming and the dreaded boil over. However, as they become larger clumps they fall back into the kettle and the foaming stops. When the proteins form clumps and fall back into the kettle it can look almost like clumps of yeast which is the "hot break". People talk about having a good hot break because it visually tells you that you had good protein coagulation which means the proteins will fall out in the fermentor and will not cause haze and decreased shelf life in the final beer.

As far as siphoning, I would invest in an autosiphon which your LHBS almost certainly carries. They are relatively cheap ($10) and they allow you to start a siphon very easily while also leaving the trub behind so you don't transfer it to your secondary. Many around here swear by them much like I do. As an alternative you could always use a racking cane, tubing and a sanitized turkey baster at the end of the siphon tubing to prime your siphon.

You might also want to consider not using a secondary at all if your recipe will allow it. This is a rather controversial subject around here but many people do it with the idea that the beer turns out better and with less chance of infection. Just presenting the idea for you to decide is all.

Enjoy your beer, it will be great!

P.S. Sorry for the long winded response and this message making it even longer!

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Old 11-14-2009, 02:12 PM   #7
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It's a rare batch of beer that won't clear, not counting Hefeweizens. The Irish Moss should bind the remaining proteins and help them drop out. If you are using a carboy for fermentation, you'll be able to watch the clearing process.

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Old 11-14-2009, 03:29 PM   #8
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Thx Scut/David, I'll take your advice, Scut and scuttlebutt the LEA. We're thinking of getting a different boiling pot since the one we use now is Laura's sauce/chili pot and is only 16 qt and I'm in constant fear of a boil over. The ones at the LHBS are "very nice". If I was able to boil 3 or 4 gallons to make my wort, would that help the hops utilization schedule or should I stay with 2 gallons in the boil, like I've found in almost all recipe instructions?

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Old 11-14-2009, 03:38 PM   #9
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The more of the batch you can boil the better off you will be. I think you get a better beer and yes your hops utilization will be better. Your LHBS recommendation for the "late extract addtion" isn't a bad idea since you were doing such a small boil which I did not realize. If you are especially worried about boil overs you could try Fermcap-S which is a much loved product around here for not allowing boil overs.

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Old 11-16-2009, 03:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooda View Post
Should we trail the bottom of the siphon just under the beer surface level to avoid pulling any muck that may be nearer to the bottom and then stopping an inch or so short of the cake to help reduce what we transfer?
if you get an auto siphon it should have a little cup on the end that goes into the beer. that cup is there to keep you from sucking up the "muck" at the bottom of the carboy. as long as you don't disturb the muck you should be ok.

i would definitely get a bigger pot minimum 5 gallons. typically when i make beer I steep the grains in 1 gallon water for 30 min. Then top off to 3 gallons and add half the extract. Then add the hops. Finally add the last of the extract.

just curious how are you cooling your wart when your done with the boil?
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