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Old 02-21-2006, 10:52 PM   #11
drengel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelone
drengel's comments sound exactly what I would expect sam caligione to say. well put!

Any judgment has a subjective edge to it (music, movies, beer), especially when you put a numerical value on the interpretation of the senses. I'm sure that the knowledge will improve one's brew too.
a very nice compliment...thanks. i think he brews excellent beer, and as an example, take the dog-head India brown. not necesarily to style specs but a damn fine beer that shouldnt be judged down for having to many IBUs.

what was this about being within 7 points of each other? i routinely use the bjcp score sheet when evaluating a new beer. i'm willing to bet that i could try a beer i scored 6 months ago and come up with a 6 point difference just due to changing tastes. 6 months ago i wasn't bored with cascades, if i judged (on personal opinion-not style guidelines) a pale ale brewed with mostly cascades today, it would get a lower mark than it did 6 months ago.
i understand the point of the guidelines, and am thankful they exist because they give some structure to the tasting of beer, as well as being an invaluable resource for me when creating recipes. i also enjoy brew comps, and wish i could be a judge at one. however, as fun as getting together with other brewers is, and as fun as winning is, i still don't hold much stock in the results of the comp. if anything, award winning beers that i have not tried give me direction in the liquor store, but not much else.

i also am very thankful for the people who take the time to become bjcp certified and provide me with that direction in the liquor store. otherwise i'd have to rely on the uneduacted hacks at beeradvocate.com for that direction. if anyone wants an example of how NOT to judge beer, or how subjective it really is, look up a review of one of your favorite beers on one of these websites.
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:03 PM   #12
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So what are the essay questions like, out of curiosity?

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Old 02-21-2006, 11:12 PM   #13
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i think the bjcp website has some study materials you can find saMPLE QUESTIONS ON.

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drinking: mocha java porter, belgian pumpkin ale, Gary's oatmeal stout clone, AHS nut brown, catamount porter clone, double nut brown, rye pale ale, my oatmeal stout

conditioning: nut brown

next: saison, wit, american wheat, hefe, kolsch, blonde

gone: too damn many

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Old 02-22-2006, 03:19 AM   #14
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I don't think the judging standards do much to reduce the subjectivity. What it does do is make sure that the judge has learned the appropriate method and terminology used in judging beer and can express it in a clear, understandable fashion.

It's not so much that it reduces subjectivity but it sets a standard of education for the judges.

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Old 02-22-2006, 01:58 PM   #15
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Anyone want to come to Arkansas this summer and take this test? I won't have time to study for it until then. Once we're done, we can go to the Flying Saucer and celebrate and judge some of their beers.

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Old 02-22-2006, 06:11 PM   #16
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Good thread.

I too had a very low opinion of judges after receiving some score sheets back. But the more I thought about it, it wasn't the BJCP's fault, these guys were just crappy judges. The first problem with judging, is that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU LIKE! My first judging experience was with Lambics. Personally, I think Lambics are disgusting. But there I was with 4 or 5 of them to score. Judging is all about conformity. How well does the beer conform to the stated guidelines? Well, as I sat there judging Lambics, I found that some of them conformed quite well, they smelled like a barnyard and tasted like sour goat piss. They were putrid, yet conformed to what the guidelines stated, so they scored well.

The second problem with judging is that some judges refuse to read the guidelines. They think they know what an APA should taste like and use their own "guidelines" instead of the sanctioned ones. Again, that's not the BJCP's fault. They provide the guidelines, they test you on the guidelines, and they expect that competition organizers will encourage the judges to use them.

Judging a "good beer" is totally subjective. Judging a beer that conforms to a written set of guidelines is much less so. The BJCP is all about conformity. Some brewers choose not to be hemmed in by such things, and that's cool. You just have to realize that entering your British Pale Ale with Cascade aroma hops into an AHA competition as a 8C is not going to go too well. Doesn't mean it's bad, just means it didn't conform as well as the others.

The test is worthwhile. Anything that makes you more knowledgeable about beer is a good thing and taking the test will definitely accomplish that.

Prosit!

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Old 02-22-2006, 06:23 PM   #17
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Default Congrats

Just wanted to send a quick congrats on your achievement. You are obviously
very passionate about brewing ! Your website has some great info and the 6 tap beer fridge rocks! I'm originally from Maryville so it was good to see someone from
"home" on this site! Good Luck on your test results!

Mamba

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Old 02-22-2006, 06:33 PM   #18
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All I've achieved is writer's cramp. Won't know the results for many weeks yet. What on earth possessed you to move away from God's country?

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