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Old 12-12-2010, 01:58 PM   #1
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Default BJCP Competition Results

How come when you enter a BJCP competition they dont send out or publish the full results? The will publish the winners but not show the results/scores of all competitors.

It seems strange to have a competition where you only know how YOU did, you have no idea how you did compared to the rest of the competitors. Even if you win a category, the two competitions i entered, it shows that you got 1st place, but doesnt tell you what the people scored that got 2nd, 3rd etc.

i find this strange.

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Old 12-12-2010, 02:09 PM   #2
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I guess just because it's more work for the organizer, and it seems like no one really seems to care who came in 7th. You do get your score back, so you know if you scored a 37 and the third place person scored a 42, you know where you stand. At least the competitions we've done have been that way- the top three names (and their scores) listed.

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Old 12-12-2010, 02:21 PM   #3
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Some comps do not publish the scores of 1-2-3. But, if you ask the organizer, it is likely that he/she will tell you.

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Old 12-12-2010, 02:26 PM   #4
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I dunno, nowadays it seems every bjcp comp I enter in Michigan has a webiste to register your beers and print the labels. Those comps tend to list everyone in order in a style category. Usually listing the store.

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Old 12-12-2010, 04:08 PM   #5
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It's worthless and embarrassing data that's hard to collect. The reasion that you enter the competition is to get feedback on what your beers are doing against the styles. It's not about wining. I don't know if I want to be known as the the best to Style brewer, most of the styles and the descriptions make a boring and medeacorce beer. I can make a much better beer than they can judge. In Minnesota most of the comps are run by 3-5 people who enter their own beers at the same time. They collectively win 20 to 30% of the prizes and ribbons. What it really means is that they are good judges not good brewers, because they can make a very good, boring beer. And I am not even going to talk about the how the head BJCP judge "Gordon Strong" wins the Ninkasi for the last 3 years. There is lots of ingrown politics in the BJCP and they don't have a good understanding of "Conflict of interest" rules. Its a all volunteer organization, they have to reward the volunteers with some thing. Too bad they tend to make the competitions worthless in the process.

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Old 12-12-2010, 04:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by yodalegomaster View Post
It's not about wining.... I don't know if I want to be known as the the best to Style brewer, most of the styles and the descriptions make a boring and medeacorce beer. I can make a much better beer than they can judge... And I am not even going to talk about the how the head BJCP judge "Gordon Strong" wins the Ninkasi for the last 3 years.
Competitions are about winning, no matter how you cut it. No one cares what some "judge" thinks when they already know their beer is better than 95% of the other entries. You think Jamil only entered competitions to get feedback? Also, competitions are great when your starting out because they give you a brutally honest review of your beer and therefore your brewing process. Most people think their beer is awesome, world class, but the truth is that most of it is pretty mediocre. Better made beer wins competitions.

I would be interested in seeing a recipe for a "better beer than they can judge."

However, I agree that there are some pretty sketchy things going on at BJCP comps along with conflicts of interest; especially concerning judges and comp organizers pulling in most of the ribbons, some with dishonest means. Same is true with the NYS wine comps. They are notorious for mixing their homemade wine with commerical examples.
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Old 12-12-2010, 05:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k47k View Post
Even if you win a category, the two competitions i entered, it shows that you got 1st place, but doesnt tell you what the people scored that got 2nd, 3rd etc.

i find this strange.
Sometimes there's aren't high enough scores to get a 2nd or 3rd place. There's usually a minimum score to get a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, so if one beer scores 40 and the rest score <28, you would only have 1 "place" in that category.
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:50 PM   #8
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Competitions are about winning, no matter how you cut it. No one cares what some "judge" thinks when they already know their beer is better than 95% of the other entries. You think Jamil only entered competitions to get feedback? Also, competitions are great when your starting out because they give you a brutally honest review of your beer and therefore your brewing process. Most people think their beer is awesome, world class, but the truth is that most of it is pretty mediocre. Better made beer wins competitions.
I don't agree. I know a lot of brewers, myself included who submit beers for the feedback, more than for the wins. That tends to be how I perfect many of my recipes over the course of a couple of years. By entering a batch, then tweaking the next batch based on the feedback and submitting it again.

My Chocolate Mole Porter is a prime example, first time it took an honorable mention, and one of the judges had some great feedback on it. I brewed batch 2 based on the comments, submitted it and that version took a bronze, and I took that feedback to brew the current batch, which I'll submit again, and keep doing it until I feel I nailed the recipe, regardless of whether it does better in another comp.

Quite a few recipes don't make it that high, but I still value the constructive comments that usually show up on score sheets.

It's nice to win, but my goal is a great beer that I enjoy drinking, and can duplicate, and I no longer feel the need to tweak it anymore.

I find the contest system invaluable to achieve that.
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
I don't agree. I know a lot of brewers, myself included who submit beers for the feedback, more than for the wins. That tends to be how I perfect many of my recipes over the course of a couple of years. By entering a batch, then tweaking the next batch based on the feedback and submitting it again.

My Chocolate Mole Porter is a prime example, first time it took an honorable mention, and one of the judges had some great feedback on it. I brewed batch 2 based on the comments, submitted it and that version took a bronze, and I took that feedback to brew the current batch, which I'll submit again, and keep doing it until I feel I nailed the recipe, regardless of whether it does better in another comp.

Quite a few recipes don't make it that high, but I still value the constructive comments that usually show up on score sheets.

It's nice to win, but my goal is a great beer that I enjoy drinking, and can duplicate, and I no longer feel the need to tweak it anymore.

I find the contest system invaluable to achieve that.
+1 to everything Revvy said here. Although it would be helpful if the judges realized this and gave their feedback accordingly. I just entered my second competition ever after being kind of turned off to competitions with my first experience. The first one I entered I got 0 feedback on recipe or process. All they basically said was it tasted good but didn't match any style. And this was a category 23!

I have yet to get back scoresheets for the second competition but I'm hopeful that I'll get more useful comments on the same beer. I don't brew to follow the bjcp, I do it to make good beers that I want to drink. If they happen to match up with a style guideline sheet so be it, but the flavor is the real priority to me.
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:11 PM   #10
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Default What a competitions for?

[QUOTE=bierhaus15;2471388]Competitions are about winning, no matter how you cut it. No one cares what some "judge" thinks when they already know their beer is better than 95% of the other entries. You think Jamil only entered competitions to get feedback? Also, competitions are great when your starting out because they give you a brutally honest review of your beer and therefore your brewing process. Most people think their beer is awesome, world class, but the truth is that most of it is pretty mediocre. Better made beer wins competitions.

I don't think you got what I was trying to express. The message was that All you can expect from a compition is "feedback" if you are an average brewer.

The people who win competitions are people who know how to brew beers to the description in in the BJCP guide. Therefore some one is tasting ahead of time and making adjustments to meet the guidelines. " the winners are the best tasters" not the best brewers.


I would be interested in seeing a recipe for a "better beer than they can judge."

Again, If you think that good beer is about the recipe your sadly mistaken, it's the brewer and the attention to detail and creativity that makes the best beers. Think about all the best commercial beers you have had, they are probably not to style.

TE]

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