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Old 11-16-2012, 01:50 PM   #131
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Hadn't thought about Columbus. Thanks.

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:04 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
Then Columbus would be better here than Chinook
For pine? Non-sense. I'll never understand when people go on and on about Chinook just being "earthy" and "spicy". I know for a fact I'm not the only brewer in the world who thinks the two big things Chinook brings to the table are an intense pine, and pink grapefruit flavour/aroma. Yes, profiles can vary from crop to crop but go give your Chinook a smell; it's probably pretty piny and citrusy.

Edit: Be careful blending with Chinook if you do go that route though. I find it's such an intense, in your face hop that it tends to over-power the other hops in the blend. 20-25% Chinook with the rest Ahtanum and Belma would make sense to me.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:25 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustovsky View Post
For pine? Non-sense. I'll never understand when people go on and on about Chinook just being "earthy" and "spicy". I know for a fact I'm not the only brewer in the world who thinks the two big things Chinook brings to the table are an intense pine, and pink grapefruit flavour/aroma. Yes, profiles can vary from crop to crop but go give your Chinook a smell; it's probably pretty piny and citrusy.

Edit: Be careful blending with Chinook if you do go that route though. I find it's such an intense, in your face hop that it tends to over-power the other hops in the blend. 20-25% Chinook with the rest Ahtanum and Belma would make sense to me.
Yes. Chinook is not very pine forward IMO. Maybe that's not the case when it's rubbed between your palms, where you do sense more pine. But when it's used late in an IPA, I find it delivering a lot of musty, earthy grapefruit, with a kick of spice and herb to it, and a lowly pine backdrop. It's almost like Simcoe without all of that sweet/juicy added fruit character. Columbus however is full of dank, green, herbal, piney, resiny, grapefruit. It's much more pungent. I've brewed with both on more than a couple occasions. But take it or leave it. Looks like you're leaving it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:49 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
It's almost like Simcoe without all of that sweet/juicy added fruit character.
Given that Simcoe is generally way up there on people's lists of piney hops along with Chinook, yes, I think I will be leaving it. Yes, Columbus is a more pungent and dank (my favourite descriptor for Columbus) hop overall, but again, thinking Chinook used as a late hop can't give a pine needle and spruce bough profile to a beer is absurd.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #135
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Pine is a common trait of Simcoe, but it's also very very fruity and borderline tropical. Simcoe tastes more like pine-fruit... if that were possible. Neither Columbus or Chinook have that added fruitiness which can detract those raw pine needle notes from being front of the pack. I wouldn't say Chinook will give you the sense of pine needle / spruce bough character more than Columbus would. But hey, he can use both Chinook & Columbus if he chooses

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Old 11-16-2012, 08:17 PM   #136
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So I just want to put my opinions on this hop here, and not contribute to all the back and forth bickering that has been going on. I just brewed a "Pumpkin IPA" recipe on Monday, dry hopped yesterday and took a gravity reading today, The beer is no where near ready but the smell from one day of dry hopping with a LOT of belma and some simcoe is very awesome! So here is the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.26 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 10.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs 6.4 oz Pumpkin (3.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 30.5 %
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 57.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.8 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.8 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
1.6 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 0.5 %
50.00 g Perle [7.50 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 7 38.1 IBUs
15.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 40. Hop 8 21.3 IBUs
55.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.00 %] - Boil 10. Hop 9 17.6 IBUs
40.00 g Belma [12.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
30.00 g Caliente [13.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
30.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
12.00 oz Pumpkin Seeds-toasted (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 13 -
1.0 pkg Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275) [0 Yeast 14 -
80.30 g Belma [12.10 %] - Dry Hop 12.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
51.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 12.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Like I said, Lots of hops, somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 IBUs and about 220g of hops in the kettle and 130g dry hopping. Compared with my previous beers using simcoe alone as a dry hop, this one with belma and simcoe provided a huge citrus and pineapple fruit on the first sniff, then melon and mango on the second, and finally I got a strong strawberry starburst candy aroma at the end, way more tropical fruits than simcoe alone. Very cool

but that said with a bit over 4 oz of dryhops I should be getting some awesome aroma, Oh and it was simcoe pellets and whole leaf belma

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Old 11-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #137
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Mine get here tomorrow. Was going to try and force myself to brew an ipa, but the strawberry tropical talk has me thinking saison.

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Old 11-16-2012, 09:47 PM   #138
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I'm going to brew my favorite IPA recipe with Belma and who knows what other hops on Sunday. Have a pound of Belma so not limited. Been reading this thread and have the sense it does well for dry hop and for flavor. I have been trying to make sense of the blending characteristics but I'm a bit confused.

Picture 6 gallons of an 8% ABV brew with 80% two row, 5% each aromatic and carapils, 8% crystal 20 and 2% acidulated malt. Bitter with 2 oz of Magnum at first wort, flavor with 1 oz of Belma and 1 oz of Simcoe at 15 min, aroma at 1 min with 1 oz each of Belma and Simcoe and dry hop with 2 oz Belma and 1 oz Simcoe.

Sound tasty? Need more hop complexity? Need more Belma? Open to input.

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Old 11-17-2012, 12:41 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
both Chinook & Columbus
Now we're talking! I support this option 100%.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:11 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustovsky View Post
Now we're talking! I support this option 100%.
Drinking Flying Fish Exit 16 Wild Rice IIPA right now. It's dryhopped with Chinook and Citra. And I actually have to agree. Chinook is VERY piney. The pine can't be from the Citra.

It's also brewed with Columbus, Centennial, and Simcoe late in the boil, but I won't attribute all that pine to those three more than the Chinook dryhop.

You win, sir. Guess I have to go back to the drawing board with Chinook when used late. I typicaly brew dry tropical, fruity IIPAs. And even when I use Chinook, I'm not delicate with the Citra, Amarillo, Centennial, and Simcoe, which can overpower Chinook at times depending on the amount used. This beer that I'm drinking now actually melds the flavors of every one of those hops (sans the Amarillo with added Columbus) quite nicely.
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