The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Armchair Philosophy Re: Hop Utilization

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-15-2012, 04:37 PM   #1
TAK
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 469
Liked 31 Times on 24 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default Armchair Philosophy Re: Hop Utilization

I'm brewing an IPA today and was thinking...

i) Hop utilization is positively correlated with the vigor of the boil.
ii) Hop utilization is positively correlated with the volume of the boil.
iii) Boil-off is positively correlated with the vigor of the boil.

Thus, increasing the vigor of the boil will increase the hop utilization, but at the same time as the boil-off continues the hop utilization drops. Since I don't hold full boils I'm wondering, in theory, is it better to keep as vigorous of a boil as possible, or is it better to drop the vigor of the boil and maintain the maximum boil volume?

__________________
TAK is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #2
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,206
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 469

Default

I go for vigor for a lot of reasons besides hop utilization. Drive off DMS, increase protein coagulation....

__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 05:57 PM   #3
TAK
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 469
Liked 31 Times on 24 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Hmmm, I haven't been brewing very long and have never heard of DMS. Just looked up the wiki, I learn something new every day!

__________________
TAK is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,956
Liked 450 Times on 419 Posts
Likes Given: 200

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
I go for vigor for a lot of reasons besides hop utilization. Drive off DMS, increase protein coagulation....
I agree with Denny, but in reading your post it sounds like you brew extract as you said no full boils? If so and using extract DMS is not a concern and really neither is a very vigorous boil
__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 09:12 PM   #5
day_trippr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Stow, MA
Posts: 9,220
Liked 979 Times on 799 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAK View Post
[...]Thus, increasing the vigor of the boil will increase the hop utilization, but at the same time as the boil-off continues the hop utilization drops.[...]
That implies isomerization is reversed as volume drops. I'm not sure that happens...

Cheers!
__________________
day_trippr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 09:24 PM   #6
phenry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Clemson, SC
Posts: 1,214
Liked 115 Times on 72 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by day_trippr View Post
That implies isomerization is reversed as volume drops. I'm not sure that happens...

Cheers!
Throw in "rate of" and I think you'll get what I think he means. So in a higher gravity wort, like we're all told, you get a lower rate of utilization. Decreasing your volume faster with a vigorous boil nets you a higher gravity, so in theory less IBUs? I dunno. I don't like to make additions much farther outside 1/4 oz increments, so whatever negligible effects either boil... err, velocity? has on my beer I'm okay with.
__________________
Primary: Saison 10
Aging: empty
Lagering: empty
Bottled: empty
Kegged: empty
phenry is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 09:28 PM   #7
JefeTheVol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 584
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAK View Post
i) Hop utilization is positively correlated with the vigor of the boil.
ii) Hop utilization is positively correlated with the volume of the boil.
iii) Boil-off is positively correlated with the vigor of the boil.
i) is correct, but not at a 1:1 ratio

ii) is not necessarily correct. "Positively correlated" means that one variable increases then the other variable increases. I think what you mean is that for any given mass of solute, hop utilization will increase as you dilute the solute. ie increase your water. Having more volume in your boil wont effect hop utilization, utilization is a function of SG not necessarily volume.

iii)Boil-off volume will decrease your utilization more and more through the boil as your volume decreases but only because your gravity increases; and it is not a linear relationship.

Utilization is calculated by 3 functions.
1. Gravity
2. Time
3. Vigor- this one doesnt effect the utilization as much as the other two but it does have an effect. Some people calculate their IBUs without accounting for the vigor of the boil and thats fine; and some people do.
__________________

-Sometimes I feel like I'm up beer creek without a pint glass-

-May the IBU's be with you-

JefeTheVol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-15-2012, 09:29 PM   #8
day_trippr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Stow, MA
Posts: 9,220
Liked 979 Times on 799 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenry View Post
Throw in "rate of" and I think you'll get what I think he means.
Not really. There's a fundamental issue at play.

Quote:
So in a higher gravity wort, like we're all told, you get a lower rate of utilization. Decreasing your volume faster with a vigorous boil nets you a higher gravity, so in theory less IBUs? I dunno.[...]
And the question at hand remains unanswered...

Cheers!
__________________
day_trippr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hop utilization z987k General Beer Discussion 35 01-26-2013 04:11 PM
Beer Philosophy - "Good" Beer and Samuel Adams rhern053 General Beer Discussion 27 03-22-2011 09:19 PM
Beer Philosophy - What is it about homebrewing... rhern053 General Beer Discussion 30 01-21-2011 04:16 AM
drunken philosophy voodoobrew General Beer Discussion 7 01-20-2011 06:27 PM
Which HOP IBU utilization scale do you use? RCCOLA General Beer Discussion 11 04-06-2009 06:59 AM