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Old 04-26-2010, 03:46 AM   #11
Beernik
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I almost poisoned myself with StarSan tonight.

I put my sampling syringe for my refract in the concentrated bottle of StarSan. Stupid, I know. Then I pulled 5 or 6 samples and put them in a cup. I checked the gravity. Then I attempted to drink the sample.

I think boiling water on my tongue would have hurt less. Thankfully I didn't swallow. It's been about 3 hours now and the irritation is finally going away.



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Old 04-26-2010, 04:13 AM   #12
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whoa! That's crazy, good to hear you're alright man. I've gotten that really acidic taste from starsan before when eating right after messing with it.



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Old 04-26-2010, 05:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FungusBrew View Post
I'm sure you mean "organic" raw food right? Better yet, maybe I should just forage it myself?
If your want to get really healthy, you can become a Level 5 vegan. I hear they don't eat anything that casts a shadow....
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:02 AM   #14
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So Fungus, when it comes to things like 'raw food', that's really about basic health not specifically about cancer. Raw is higher in fiber and hasn't had a chance to degrade naturally found vitamins and nutrients. Plus, it tends to just plain avoid ingredients that can be troublesome for some people, such as high fructose corn syrup. Does it have anything specifically to do with your situation? No. Are minimally processed foods better for overall health? In general, yes.

'Organic' though kinda cheeses me off. The label basically instills fear into people that 'conventional' food is bad for them, so they should pay a 300% premium--even though no tests can prove it's better. Add that to the fact that due to lower yields and food spoilage/infestations, it actually means it could be shrinking the worlds food supply. And to add even more, since there are relatively few farms that produce actual organic food, they have to be trucked around the country more, depleting even more fossil fuels.

So in reality, skip organic, and either grow yourself or get to know some farmers (usually very nice people ).

When it comes to beer and cancer though, I still stand by alcohol probably being the worst thing in it. If your doc has given you the all clear for that, then I just wouldn't worry about it too much.

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Old 04-26-2010, 05:15 AM   #15
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H3PO4 is not a carcinogen. There have been a few studies here and there that link it to lower bone density, but there have been studies that disprove that as well, and we're talking high volumes of soda here not the low quantity that we use. Other than it being an acid, it doesn't have any health problems associated with it.

Most finnings are made from fish or pig(gelatin). PVPPP is plastic as said above and I've always wondered about it. It's crazy effective though.

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Old 04-26-2010, 05:19 AM   #16
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I wish there was a definitive answer on the tranquility of brewing ingredients but the best that we have is the FDA. If there was enough evidence that these brewing products were dangerous then their would be sanctions against them. Because no sanctions exist, that means one of two things: they are either harmless or not enough evidence exists to prove their danger. Either way we are taking a risk.

In other words, "all natural" does not mean "all good"...sometimes people get caught up in thinking that organic food is the healthiest thing you can do for yourself and in some ways they are right, but a good argument to refute organics is the fact that hemlock is organic and it will definitely kill you if you ingest enough of it.

The real question you need to be asking yourself, is do you feel that you are doing more good than harm with your brewing ingredients. If you feel more harm is done, and you are using an FDA approved ingredient, then there is nothing anyone can do to prove to you that it is safe. If you are using an ingredient that you trust, and the FDA has no sanctions then your own fears are quelled.

Bottom line, if evidence existed of danger then you have to trust that the FDA would know about. But also, it is the government, and if you have been to a VA Hospital then you know how well the Gov't is run...like a bad cub scout troop.

Closing point...poison is easy to point out because it kills you quick...carcinogens are exponentially tougher because they dont.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:22 AM   #17
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Plenty of things that are 'all natural' will kill you.

Ebola virus is one of my favorites.
heck, it's probably even organic.

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Old 04-26-2010, 05:28 AM   #18
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Sunlight is all natural, and it can give you one of the worst cancers you can get. Botulism can be organic, and radon has never been adulterated with any man made chemicals

Mostly though, I'd say: Relax, have a homebrew

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Old 04-26-2010, 08:28 AM   #19
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Phos acid is a food additive (for as a acidity regualtor I think), from memory it is found in coke as a replacement for the more expensice citric acid. And I also remember that most citric acid is produced from phosphoric acid (Don't trust me on any of this cause I can't remember where I heard all this!)
Oh...... and now I'm off to get some diesel parts, how did he know that I wanted car parts when I was looking at a homebrew forum, weird!

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Old 04-28-2010, 03:56 AM   #20
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Ahh HBT, you never cease to put a smile on my face. I didn't ask what causes cancer in the world, that's what CNN's for. Heck, I didn't even ask what causes cancer in beer. The only thing I'm interested in here is what questionable ingredients you guys find yourselves using when you homebrew.

As for the Raw food thing, I was just being sarcastic. There's no way I would substitute my diet for an all raw one. I'm a firm believer that our ability to cook food, is a key attribute in why we're human. Cooked food led to a higher evolved degree of brain development over millenia, as it introduced different protein chains and vitamins unobtainable before.

Local, Organic produce and meat is the way to go. I wouldn't buy organic eggs from California living in New York, it defeats the big picture in my eyes. Now, there's nothing wrong with pesticide, hormone, antibiotic free foods. If one so chooses to go that route, so be it. They'll always be plenty of people to call it a joke, and keep on eating their big macs. The system wont fail because of the hippies. Relax, have a home brew. Oh, and there's plenty of information available to show organic is "healthier". For example, US Lamb is injected with a growth hormone that is directly linked to breast cancer. NZ and Aussie lamb is hormone free, organic. Would you honestly rather have an antibiotic, hormone injected piece of meat as opposed to the latter? There's a reason that Europe has a total trade embargo with the US on meat products. They completly ban the use of the nasty stuff, and totally refuse to take ours. I'm with the Germans It seems pretty obvious to me that something organic, is healthier. Simply because our bodies evolved without all that garbage, and now that it's being introduced to our diets, we don't know how the hell to metabolize it. It sits in us as a foreign invader, and eventually renders itself harmful. Children (more prominent in girls), are hitting puberty at ridiculously early rates as compared to 75 years ago. It's an obvious, and direct link to growth hormones from meat in their diet. Yet, everyone wants to deny it because they grew up eating it and are fine. Are we? I'll let you be the judge. At least that's how I see it, if you do differently, I've got no problem at all. Another beauty of being human is how we get to choose what we want with our lives. The fossil fuel thing related to organic farms being further in the country is a funny one. Check out where that orange juice in your frige came from, probably china. Makes me wonder how much shipping goes into having every vegetable under the sun available to me at wall mart in the heart of a mid-west winter. If everyone bought local organic, we would save BILLIONS on fossil fuels. Heck, it's one of pro arguments for it. Seems like there are stronger arguments to address then fossil fuels when opposing. Like you said, unreliable yields, high labor input, etc.


In my opinion the FDA is exceptionally questionable. One example of many; They consider high fructose corn syrup "natural". HFCS is a molecularly compromised sugar that is found no wear in nature. It's synthetically made from a corn base, and can't be metabolized as easily as sucrose. Our bodies just don't know what the hell to do with it. But alas, it's natural. From a homebrew standpoint pertaining to the FDA, I highly doubt they regulate any of our ingredients JefetheVol. There's a ton of things they have don't have anything to do with, and unless you prove me wrong (I'm not 100% sure just assuming), I'm going to go on believing that our hobby is void of FDA regulation.


This is all strictly just my opinion, of course they'll be plenty of people who disagree. I eat non organic meat all the time, and drink in excess even more. Once again, I was only interested in what you saw as sketchy with homebrew ingredients. I know the sun is bad, and botulism sucks. Ha, maybe if we didn't have antibodies in our meat, we could build up a better resistance to it? Ohh man..


Prost!



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