5 QUESTIONS: Racked 4 gal of beer on 1 gal starsan solution in keg -- can I fix it?

Hello, I've been homebrewing for about a year now, and tonight I have made my biggest mistake to date. I left somewhere between 0.75 and 1.25 gallons (probably closer to 1 gallon, really) of a properly diluted starsan solution in my 5 gallon corny keg before racking my lager on top of it. I literally stood there in shock and disbelief while I watched the keg overflow with what looked to be a very light colored liquid (appeared to be about ~1-2 SRM) for about 15 seconds before stopping it (the beer is 13-14 SRM). In fact, upon cleaning up the overflow on the floor, I noticed it wasn't as sticky as would be expected from typical beer spillage. I racked 4 out of 5 gallons into the keg, and decided to save the last unracked gallon by bottling it, instead. Will be a while before being able to taste the mistake beer against the proper beer.

A quick note: I have read similar discussions about whether or not it is safe to have a starsanned (that's a word now, btw) beer, and have decided that I am indeed okay with drinking it, so instead what I care most about is whether or not this can still be a good tasting beer. So here are my questions:

1) When the clearer-colored liquid began overflowing out of the top of the keg, may the starsan solution have possibly settled on top of the racked-in beer so that when it overflowed it actually pushed out mainly starsan solution?

2) The beer will obviously be watered down, can I freeze the keg to the point that I can collect and remove the ice to equal roughly the amount of extra water added via the starsan solution? If I do get some water out, will the star-san still be in the beer or would it come out with the water?

3) I measured my FG to be about 1.020 before making the mistake. After the mistake I measured the FG in the beer-starsan solution to be 1.010, meaning it dropped 10 points. Is there some math I can use to determine exactly how much water I added to the beer to get it down 10 points?

4) I am using a Pepsi ball lock corny keg.. is the volume on these exactly 5 gallons up to the very top... this will help me with the math like in question 3.

5) Any other suggestions on how to make this beer taste better or less watered-down?

Thanks so much for any help on this matter... such an embarrassing mistake to make. Definitely my saddest day of homebrewing--hopefully there's some hope left...

Dump it.

I'd dump it too and chalk it up as a learning experience and a mistake that you'll be absolutely sure never happens again.


Rev.

Just because you can drink a gallon of star san, doesn't mean you should. I would dump it, it hurts but we all have had to dump a batch once in a while.

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I'm accepting that this will be my first dump.

With that said, I would still like to get some help with some of these questions just for future reference...

Thanks.

1. Starsan goes into solution, so not it didn't get more pushed out, some of the foam may have been star san but that is just the surfactant portion.

2. yes you can, but the freezing will mess with the beer flavor. I think it's the breaking of proteins and sugars, but i'm not sure. In any case, a beer that has been frozen doesn't taste quite right IMO. Also, If you go this route with say a chest freezer, you will need to keep monitoring it and once it gets below about 15 F you will need to sit there with an ice scoop and measure as you go.....incredible PITA, but probably doable. As for the freezing point of star san,here is a good link to detergent properties: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/technical-documents/articles/biofiles/detergent-properties.html go nuts and see what you can SCIENCE!

3. off the top I would say you added between 0.75 and 1.25 gallons of the stuff to your beer..... beersmith or the like could help you back track by changing your batch volume until you get the OG post dilution.

4. I use ball lock so no clue.

5. Dump it and cry....do this while making another beer...it helps with the mourning.

I can't answer the other questions but to 2 and 4 - first, the liquid is already mixed with the beer. That likely means the beer would just have a higher freezing point. It's not going to magically separate. So it would all freeze together just at a higher point. I'm on my phone and don't have the equation at the moment but for example sake instead of freezing at say 29 degrees it might instead all freeze at 30. As for the keg, I have ball locks so I can't say for sure but somehow I'd imagine they are pretty much the same and 5 gallons is where the weld line is. You can easily see the weld line on the inside and outside of the keg. Don't fill past that, if you do you risk getting liquid feeding back into the CO2 line which can creep back far enough to go into and damage your regulator.

Rev.

TipsySaint said:

2. yes you can, but the freezing will mess with the beer flavor. I think it's the breaking of proteins and sugars, but i'm not sure. In any case, a beer that has been frozen doesn't taste quite right IMO. Also, If you go this route with say a chest freezer, you will need to keep monitoring it and once it gets below about 15 F

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Sorry, but this is plain wrong. The StarSan has mixed with the beer, it's not going to separate. On top of that, 15 degrees will freeze any beer and the whole thing will be a solid block of ice. I agree with your #5 though, he needs to dump it, shed a few tears and move on.


Rev.

I very much appreciate all your replies! Does anyone happen to know if anything in star-san breaks down in solution over time into some other make-up?

From the Tech Sheet for Starsan:

 SAFETY
DANGER: Corrosive to skin and eye, contains Phosphoric Acid. Harmful if swallowed. Do not get in eyes, on skin or on clothing. Wear protective goggles and clothing when using. Avoid contamination of food. DO NOT MIX STARSAN HB with chlorinated cleaners as chlorine gas will result. See Label for more precautionary information. Contains Phosphoric Acid. A known corrosive.
FIRST AID:
For Eyes: Hold eyes open and rinse slowly and gently with water for 15-20 minutes. Remove contact lenses, if present, after the first five minutes. Then continue rinsing. Call Poison Control Center or doctor for treatment advice.
If Swallowed: Call Poison Control Center or doctor immediately for treatment advice. Have person sip on a glass of water if able to swallow. Do not induce vomiting unless told to do so by the Poison Control doctor. Do not give anything to an unconscious person.
If on Skin or Clothing: Take off contaminated clothing. Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15-20 minutes. Call Poison Control Center for treatment advice.
If Inhaled: Move person to fresh air. If person is not breathing call 911 or an ambulance, then give artificial respiration, preferably mouth-to-mouth if possible. Call a Poison Control Center or doctor for treatment.
NOTE TO PHYSICIAN: Probable mucosal damage may contraindicate the use of gastric lavage. Measure against circulatory shock, respiratory depression and convulsion may be needed.

Rev2010 said:

Sorry, but this is plain wrong. The StarSan has mixed with the beer, it's not going to separate. On top of that, 15 degrees will freeze any beer and the whole thing will be a solid block of ice. I agree with your #5 though, he needs to dump it, shed a few tears and move on.


Rev.

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Water, star san and beer flavor will come out...not all of one thing....it's a bad idea to drink it, but yes you could freeze it to remove volume of "not booze". I've made apple jack before by freezing 8% cider down to -30F and the booze was concentrated in the center of the block....after some chipping I got about .5 gallons out of it.

Since I have nothing to lose, I am going to give the freeze method a go. If anything I can remove the watered-down nature of what's in the keg. Starsan is supposed to be flavorless, but I don't know about that...

Given the foaming characteristic of starsan, do you think this will affect the overall clarity/haziness of the"beer solution" in my keg?

Thanks.

Just to be clear, you are going to drink sanitizing solution mixed with beer...and you're worried about clarity?

MattyIce said:

Just to be clear, you are going to drink sanitizing solution mixed with beer...and you're worried about clarity?

Click to expand...

I'd be more concerned with a hospital visit. But thats just me.

smaro said:

Since I have nothing to lose

Click to expand...

Actually, post #10, above, doesn't really back up this idea.

Sorry I wasn't as clear about my plan, although I was just meaning to get some knowledge as to the relationship between starsan and haziness. Anywho, if I can indeed get the extra water content out, then I'm considering adding another batch to it... at which point the amount of starsan in solution will be less than half an ounce in 10 gallons.. which is way more diluted and safe.

I appreciate everyone's concern, but the plan is not too drink it, but instead to learn more about beer science.

I'm confused...you said you were diluting it with more beer....

So either you are wasting more beer, and now dumping 10 gallons instead of 5 or you are drinking 10 gallons of cleaner laced beer....


Dump and cry man, barfing and diarrhea is not worth this minor transgression....

I agree. This will more to do with diarrhea science than beer science.

Is OP still alive? I've been worried.

Last Activity was Dec 16th. Right about the time the 2nd batch would've been blended with the first... Ruuuhhh Ohhhh

I came to this forum hoping to learn something. This is something I already knew. Drinking anything that is at minimum 25% sanitizing solution is pretty much idiotic, even if it's beer.

How did I miss this the first time around?!? @smaro please check in!

This is a great example of how we can get way too close to a situation, and work ourselves around to the point where we are seriously considering doing something that, with some perspective, we would never consider doing.

I think he's still on the toilet.

too many jokes, too little time

And I thought I had it bad. I was worried about a couple of sprays of starsan in my bottling bucket before racking the beer onto the bottling sugar mixture. Boy do I feel better now

Wow, why would you ever waste a second batch trying to fix the first.

Palmer says it won't kill you. I think you should finish in the name of science and let us know what happened. You may want to do a ph test to see how acidic it is. Coke and Pepsi are full of phosphoric acid so maybe compare to them.
The acid will probably react w organic compounds in your beer especially anything with a ph over 7 and make some kind of salt.
I doubt if the beer would be drinkable but who knows?

I thought I read somewhere that this had been done intentionally, possibly to prove the point that you "don't need to fear the foam" by the people that make starsan and that the beer was fine...not sure if I am remembering right or not...

Foam is one thing. A gallon at recommended dilution should be considered poison. He poisoned his beer and now he's dead. That's the only logical conclusion here.

Darwin is rolling over in his grave.

Lawl.

Back from the dead and I suppose it's time to nightcap this one. Sorry to disappoint but there was no medical emergency nor explosive GI blowouts..

I ended up slowly bringing the temp down below freezing until enough of a layer of ice existed at the top of the keg to easily remove -- with hopes to bring down the water content and bring up the flavor (and yes, the starsan %). I did this not to save the beer, but to be able to taste it to get an idea of what the flavor may have been like.

For what it's worth, while the flavor did reveal itself much better, for those who say StarSan is tasteless.. well you're wrong. No surprise here, the beer wasn't going to fool anyone. I did let a couple friends taste it (they were given full disclosure of the situation), and one said he could tell something was off and one said it tasted fine. Of course the idea was to spit it out after tasting it out. One thing to point out: it was extremely hazy and extra foamy--even after cold crashing and drawing out any lasting sediment layers after letting it sit for a number of days.

I was playing around with the concept of adding more beer to bring down the StarSan ratio.. but of course, as most have mentioned, this is a high risk of wasting what could otherwise be a good 2nd beer. I'm sure if I were to, say, add this to 19 other batches then it would be perfectly fine by anyone's standards.. but alas I am not in the business of mass-producing using the mega-brewery common pilsner method.

Needlesstosay, I had my cry, and did what I had to:


...I have since moved on and made my fav brew yet, a superb double IPA, appropriately named the "Redemption IPA". It was a good learning experience, and a mistake never to be made again.

I see nobody at your house wastes time by putting the Toilet Paper roll on the dispenser.

We recently ordered one for our remodeled back bathroom that you just slip the roll on. No spring loaded doohickie, just remove roll from carton, slip on the dispenser.

And my wife and I are betting it STILL doesn't get used!

Whew, glad you're alright and back at the brewing!

Thanks for sharing the laugh with us, we've all done stuff like this and it helps to chuckle about it. My favorite was when I made a cider and decided to add ginger to it, because I like ginger, without even trying a little bit of the two flavors combined first. I learned that there is a reason that no one ever puts ginger in apple pie. Or apple anything. Just horrible. Or there was the time half-way through kegging an APA that I suddenly remembered that I had forgotten to dry hop it. *dope slap* Threw a bag of hops into the keg and that sorta of fixed that, but still, how does one forget something like that?

The IIPA sounds great, I'm bottling a IIPA tonight, haven't thought of a name for it yet - used a pound of hops total in it, quite the expensive beer, so maybe something related to that.

In any case, glad you've resurfaced and none the worse for wear!

*golf clap* good job on not dying.

............

Well at least you got some kickass house shoes