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**Sir Humpsalot** · 12-29-2006, 12:21 AM

Thanks for all the positive feedback, ladies and gents! I know that the rules procedures seem awfully tedious, but it seems to me to be a small price to pay in exchange for a fair contest. The only thing worse than a bunch of silly PITA rules would be someone who "wins" the contest through some stupid loophole.

I know. We're all mature adults. We're all above that. But let's face it... some of us just like to win!!! So to me "keeping it simple" is not as important as "spelling it all out so there are no opportunities for misunderstanding".

Right now, there are 8 rules, IIRC. When we finish there will probably be twelve or so. And I will make a checklist for everybody- yes or no questions- that will tell you whether you are within the rules.

**Sir Humpsalot** · 12-29-2006, 12:26 AM

And hopfan- I was discussing this with jezter. One of the reasons that "style" IS a consideration is so that the judges can recognize beer.

For example, at what point does a cheap beer become "a zima with some hops"? I don't know. In order for this to truly be a BEER competition we need to require that the contestants attempt to mimic a beer style. It doesn't matter which one, but they have to be able to say, "This is a beer that is intended to be in the style of...."

Of course, contestants will only LOOSELY be graded on this and it probably won't count for much. You certainly won't get nailed for being too cloudy or clear or using the wrong type of hops. But you will get nailed if your "beer" tastes like zima.

In other words, it's just a way of the judges saying, "This is what beer is... this is what beer is NOT". It seems ridiculously simple, but it gives people something to shoot for.

**the_bird** · 12-29-2006, 01:24 AM

The original, original premise - can you make beer cheaper than BMC? - is easy to prove as a "yes" without comprimising on quality as an AG brewer. Even factoring in energy costs and effectively "depreciating" my equipment, it's cheaper to brew than to buy.

So, that's out the window. Now, the question is - how MUCH cheaper can you go?

**Sir Humpsalot** · 12-29-2006, 01:26 AM

Well said, bird.

**jezter6** · 12-29-2006, 02:47 AM

Agreed. Although I proposed some of the more PITA rules, I think less is more in this case.

I'm beginning to think 'screw the rules.' For most of this. If someone sends you a zima, it's a 1 on the taste scale. Open it, sip it, call it a day. Don't worry about rules to prevent it.

New rules (lite) proposal:
(1 and 2 removed)
3. No use of spirits to increase the ABV of your beer.
4. Styles? What style? If it sucks, the judge rates it low. End of story. Beer is rated 1 - 10 on taste/body/mouthfeel. Totally subjective. It's what tastes good and what doesn't.
5. Total cost per gallon must be below $3.40/gal. Each 10c below that gains an additional 1pt for AG/PM brews, 1.5 points for extract. (Those numbers are arbitrary)
6. Must be at least 3% ABV. For each 0.1 ABV you get 1 point. This goes for all types (AG/PM/extract).
7. You must submit a full recipe with your beer, including all ingredients, mash steps, projected OG, actual OG, projected FG, actual FG, ABV, IBU, cost of each ingredient, brewer name, contact information. An actual form will be created later to fill out and send.
8. Costs will be calculated by the following method -
Malt priced at average cost per pound of bulk (50/55 pound bags) from 3 online retailers. (morebeer, northern brewer, austin homebrew supply)
Hops priced at average cost per oz of bulk (1 pound) from 2 online retailers. (freshops, hopsdirect)
Adjuncts priced at average cost of non-bulk pricing from 3 online retailers. If it cannot be found on those 3 sites, peapod.com will be the final price for grocery style items. (morebeer, northern brewer, austin homebrew)
Yeast priced at average cost of single use yeast type divided by 3 from 3 online retailers. (morebeer, northern brewer, austin homebrew)
Other ingrediencts (Irish moss, clarifying agent, etc) priced at average cost for non-bulk pricing from 3 online retailers. (morebeer, northern brewer, austin homebrew)
Priming sugar is free, as long as it's only added at bottling time.
No costs will be associated for any equipment/time/etc.

Edit: removed 1 and 2 per Yuri, and redefined #3 because I forgot to include rating scale.
And since #3 was...screw it, let the judge decide, it defeats the purpose of the old 1 and 2. If you send in something other than beer, prepare to get 1 point just for entering. No more. No less.

**Yuri_Rage** · 12-29-2006, 02:56 AM

Now we're talkin'! Except for these two rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezter6

1. You must use a minimum of 1 of each ingredient (malt, adjunct, hops, yeast).
2. You must use at least 50% of your grain bill in malt.

Rule one begins dictating ingredients again. You can make a GREAT beer without adjuncts...why require the use of one?

Rule two dictates amounts - what if I can somehow make a great beer with corn and rice as the primary sources of fermentables, using only a minimum of the traditional barley malts?

**jezter6** · 12-29-2006, 03:02 AM

I see the point. I'm willing to scrap em.

I'm just trying to find a way that enforces 'BEER' as the concept. Somehow I think a 90% non-malt 'brew' isn't really beer anymore.

**Yuri_Rage** · 12-29-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezter6

Somehow I think a 90% non-malt 'brew' isn't really beer anymore.

If you're a die-hard German, wheat malt doesn't even qualify as a beer ingredient...

**Sir Humpsalot** · 12-29-2006, 03:13 AM

I also want a rule requiring quarter ounce increments for hops and quarter pound increments for malt/LME/DME.

I don't want to be reading any recipes that call for 0.39 ounces of hops to skirt their way under the price point.

**jezter6** · 12-29-2006, 03:15 AM

I would agree there. I would also agree that, while the chances of an out of country brew are slim, that everything is in ounces and pounds. My brain hurt just trying to do the math to see how much orfy was actually putting into his recipe.

Also, not so much a rule, but an honor system guideline: Include the cost of your starter wort in the recipe. Please don't make a 1 gallon starter to a 5 gallon batch with a pound of DME to get around the cost.