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Calder · 12-28-2012, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionrdr

Never read of English using bret in the ales,much less an IPA. And even my 1890's #3 Burton ale was a rusty amber color to match the malt colors of the day. Pale ales were dark amber red to coppery sort of color.

Brettanomyces was first isolated at a British Brewery by Claussen. The name is Greek and means British Fungus. I suspect it was pretty well established at a lot of Breweries of the time.

It is not something they used. They didn't know about it. It was just something that was present in the breweries.

patto1ro · 12-28-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionrdr

Well,one brewery in Sheffield,England mention to a journalist of the day that they barrel aged their Burton ale for 14 years. I casll BS on that,the beer would have to be a barleywine to stand up that long. Even then,IDK...

Burton Ale is Barley Wine. A totally different style of beer from Pale Ale.

patto1ro · 12-28-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bierhaus15

A few things.

Using a lot of hops in the boil may seem unnecessary beyond bittering, but the sheer amount of vegetal matter actually adds a lot of hop flavor even after being boiled for hours. Therefore, if you want to be authentic, drop the small amount of high AA% hops and load it up with whole leaf EKG. Pellet hops don't give the same character for this type of usage.

Also, color wise, don't think that all pale ales were coppery colored back then. That simply isn't true. Maltsters were using coke (fuel) by the early 1800's and were able to produce quite pale beers, so well that some people complained how the palest colored beers were the least flavorful. And then breweries included large amounts of sugar in their beers to further lighten the color.

Lastly, Burton Ales were the most highly hopped beers at the time. And guess what the first Barleywine was?? Burton no 1... a Burton Ale.

Totally correct with most of your points. They went to great trouble to get their malt as pale as possible. That's why Burton brewers all had their own maltings, so they had complete control over the colour.

Burton brewers were also very careful about how they boiled to avoid adding any colour. They had open coppers and tried to keep their boils short.

Massive quantities of whole leaf Goldings are just amazing in a beer. Pretty Things 1832 XXXX Ale had ridiculous quantities of them and is one of the best beers I've ever tasted.

But . . . Burton Ale and Burton Pale Ale are totally different styles of beer. Burton Ale is the stuff they made in Burton before Pale Ale came along.

**unionrdr** · 12-28-2012, 01:18 PM

The #1 Burton was a barleywine. The #3 Burton ale around the 1890's was a lighter version,or "pale ale" that the younger folks wanted. They weren't to fond of the sweeter barleywine #1. That's what I read on Barkley Perkins & Zythophile. And some of their boils were something like 3 hours. The barleywine,I'd tend to think would've been the longer one.

patto1ro · 12-28-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionrdr

The #1 Burton was a barleywine. The #3 Burton ale around the 1890's was a lighter version,or "pale ale" that the younger folks wanted. They weren't to fond of the sweeter barleywine #1. That's what I read on Barkley Perkins & Zythophile. And some of their boils were something like 3 hours. The barleywine,I'd tend to think would've been the longer one.

Bass No. 1 was the original Barley Wine.

All the numbered Bass beers were Burton Ales. Only the Pale Ale wasn't.

**unionrdr** · 12-28-2012, 04:08 PM

From what I read,the #3 Burton was derived from the #1,just a lighter version. There were other breweries producing what they called a "Burton" that were just clones of the actual Burton ales.

patto1ro · 12-29-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionrdr

From what I read,the #3 Burton was derived from the #1,just a lighter version. There were other breweries producing what they called a "Burton" that were just clones of the actual Burton ales.

No. 3 Burton was not a Pale Ale, just a less strong Burton Ale.

These are Bass's beers (and their gravities) from the 1870's:

India Pale Ale 1060
No. 1 Burton Ale 1110
No. 2 Burton Ale 1090
No. 3a Ale (Old Ale) 1085
No. 3b Ale (Bottling) 1085
No. 3 Burton Ale 1075
No. 4 Burton Ale 1070
No. 5 Burton Ale 1065
No. 6 Burton Ale 1060
No. 2 (P2) Imperial Stout 1095
No. 3 (P3) Extra Stout 1075
No. 4 (P4) Double Stout 1070
No. 5 (P5) Stout 1065

Note that No. 3 is descibed as "Old Ale".

**unionrdr** · 12-29-2012, 01:51 PM

3b,yeah. Down the list at 1.075 is the #3 Burton I toyed with brewing with extracts. Gunna cut the volume & add more hops next time.

Calder · 12-30-2012, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionrdr

3b,yeah. Down the list at 1.075 is the #3 Burton I toyed with brewing with extracts. Gunna cut the volume & add more hops next time.

Is it me, or are there 2 of you using the same picture? Very confusing!

**unionrdr** · 12-30-2012, 03:28 PM

Yeah,there's two of us now!... Anyway,the 1075 Burton is the pale ale,not 3b. Read up on it.
Here's a link that talks color,etc; http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2011/05/burton-ale-in-1790s.html About 3/4's of the way down the page,besides referrences earlier in the work.