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Old 08-03-2010, 06:41 PM   #1
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Default Yeast Starters

Do yeast starters help fermentation begin quicker than a smack pack? I'm only doing 5 gal. batches. Will a starter make a huge difference?

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Old 08-03-2010, 06:49 PM   #2
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yes, pitching more yeast will reduce the lag time.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:00 PM   #3
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I used liquid yeasts without starters for a while and didn't have any problems. But if you believe Mr. Malty, neither vials of liquid yeast nor smack packs have enough viable cells in them for a 5-gallon batch of normal strength.

For a 5.25-gallon batch of 1.048 wort, you'd need 177 billion cells, whereas a Wyeast Activator pack contains a "minimum of 100 billion cells". So you'd be underpitching.

That said, I made quite a few brews with just a single vial and they took off just fine.

You can check out Mr. Malty's Pitching Calculator if you want, but I'd not honestly worry about a starter for your first all-grain batch unless you've been doing them quite a bit already.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:02 PM   #4
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yeah, let me clarify...

I generally don't make starters. Only a couple recipes that I brew use liquid yeasts, and I've had no issues just pitching the smack pack.

but... if you make a starter it will cut down lag time.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:03 PM   #5
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Cool. I have a smack pack of Czech Pils yeast. I've been dying to go AG and want it to go as smoothly as possible.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
Cool. I have a smack pack of Czech Pils yeast. I've been dying to go AG and want it to go as smoothly as possible.
Well... a LAGER is one instance where I would absolutely recommend a starter. A big one.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:07 PM   #7
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Your beers will absolutely begin quicker with a starter. The higher the gravity, the more of a difference you will see in lag time. With a correctly sized starter and proper aeration you rarely see a lag time of more than 12 hours and it is often less. Without a starter you can get lag times in the 24-48 hour range or longer with just a vial. During that lag phase the wort is susceptable to bacteria which reproduce at a faster rate than the beer yeast.

According to Chris White from White Labs yeast, when you have a significant lag time, even if the yeast eventually win the reproductive battle with bacteria, if the bacteria gets enough time to reproduce in the wort in sufficient numbers before the yeast take over they can still leave trace residual off flavors in the batch of beer.

So you may be fine pitching only the vial, but you increase the risk of off flavors.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:14 PM   #8
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It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Quote:
Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!

But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast. You may find the "bothering" to make a starter will make even the less than best kit beer come out tasting great.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #9
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I don't have any DME, but I have corn sugar and time before Friday. Can I make a starter with what I have?

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:39 PM   #10
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I don't think you want to make a starter with just corn sugar. That might mess up the yeast because there are no nutrients in there.... just sugar.

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