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-   -   yeast cultivating, "growing" multiplying question (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-cultivating-growing-multiplying-question-38070/)

chainsawbrewing 09-06-2007 10:03 PM

yeast cultivating, "growing" multiplying question
 
can i make a really, really thick/high gravity starter, like for example use triple or quadruple the amount of DME as i usually do, and then add a whole smackpack into it, let it ferment, then let all the yeasties settle to the bottom, pour off the liquid from the top, then make another super high gravity wort, pour the multiplied yeast on top of that, repeat, maybe two or thrree times, and get a ****load of yeast, then split it up to many different vials for future usage, and use one vial for a new, normal gravity starter, and brew like usual?

is it possible to make a starter too high gravity, so that the yeast won't know what to do with it? i'm just thinking that the higher the gravity of the starter wort, the more the yeast will multiply, is that correct?

i know all the usual washing, putting wort on top of yeastcake in a primary, and i've done both. but washing yeast is kind of a hassle, and to me, it would be easier to "grow" the yeast before i ever use it to brew anything.


thanks,

brian

Yooper 09-06-2007 10:07 PM

I really don't know- but I've heard that the reason you do a starter in the 1.040 range is because that's optimum for yeast propagation. A very high sg would probably stress the yeast and that's the opposite of what you want. Still, I hope someone with first hand knowledge chimes in since I didn't really answer your question!

EdWort 09-06-2007 10:11 PM

Wyeast says to make a starter no higher than 1.060 in O.G. The best way is to stick to the 1.040 range and step it up each time during kreuzen phase. I do that to propagate liquid yeast up to a gallon growler, then let if ferment out finally, then bottle and store in the fridge for later use. I've gotten 7 batches of HefeWeizen out of one smack pack this way.

chainsawbrewing 09-06-2007 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdWort
and step it up each time during kreuzen phase.

thanks edwort.

i'm not sure what you mean by this though. can you explain in dummy terms?

sudbuster 09-06-2007 10:23 PM

Hi! Brian.

>>can i make a really, really thick/high gravity starter, like for example use triple or quadruple the amount of DME as i usually do, and then add a whole smackpack into it, let it ferment, then let all the yeasties settle to the bottom, pour off the liquid from the top, then make another super high gravity wort, pour the multiplied yeast on top of that, repeat, maybe two or thrree times, and get a ****load of yeast, then split it up to many different vials for future usage, and use one vial for a new, normal gravity starter, and brew like usual?<<

Yeast usually remain most healthy, and have less mutations in a wort about 1.040 sg. because they are less stressed. I would also suggest that you use a separate starter, each haveing about 2l wort and then divide your SP over them, then fill your vials from them. The yeast would have gone through one iteration instead of several. The vessels should be covered loosely with sanitized aluminum foil, and swired and gently shaken frequently to provide oxygen for growth.

Your yeast vials will keep 39f for about three mo, then they will need to be fed again.

ZenBrewer 11-09-2009 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sudbuster (Post 372488)

Yeast usually remain most healthy, and have less mutations in a wort about 1.040 sg. because they are less stressed. I would also suggest that you use a separate starter, each haveing about 2l wort and then divide your SP over them, then fill your vials from them. The yeast would have gone through one iteration instead of several. The vessels should be covered loosely with sanitized aluminum foil, and swired and gently shaken frequently to provide oxygen for growth.

Your yeast vials will keep 39f for about three mo, then they will need to be fed again.

Thanks for the advice Sudbuster. This was a concern of mine as well.

Any thoughts on yeast/wort volumes for "storage" of the cultivated yeast? Could you take the one smack pack, spit into 2 Erlenmeyer flasks with ~600-700 ml of wort, then start both. After the yeast has had time to reproduce, decant off some wort and swirl up the 2 flasks, then split equally between 4 Erlenmeyer flasks adding more fresh wort?


Thanks, ZB

amercuric 11-09-2009 10:20 PM

I use a more simple and practical method of basically putting a few tablespoons of trub from the secondary into in a bottle with some DME and yeast nutrient then putting it in the fridge. The only problem is transferring a small amount of alpha acids from the hops in the culture to your new beer if you're using hop pellets.

1. Buy specialty yeast that you want to use continuously.
2. Make beer with that yeast.
3. After racking, transfer about five tablespoons of trub/yeast at the bottom of the primary or secondary fermenter to a sanitized plastic soda bottle.
4. Add water to the top of that bottle.
5. Add a few tablespoons of DME (or sugar) and a pinch of yeast nutrient.
6. Cap, shake and refridgerate.
7. When making a starter, extract only the upper, lighter-colored sediment layer as that is most likely pure yeast.

benstetson 07-17-2011 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amercuric (Post 1666071)
I use a more simple and practical method of basically putting a few tablespoons of trub from the secondary into in a bottle with some DME and yeast nutrient then putting it in the fridge. The only problem is transferring a small amount of alpha acids from the hops in the culture to your new beer if you're using hop pellets.

1. Buy specialty yeast that you want to use continuously.
2. Make beer with that yeast.
3. After racking, transfer about five tablespoons of trub/yeast at the bottom of the primary or secondary fermenter to a sanitized plastic soda bottle.
4. Add water to the top of that bottle.
5. Add a few tablespoons of DME (or sugar) and a pinch of yeast nutrient.
6. Cap, shake and refridgerate.
7. When making a starter, extract only the upper, lighter-colored sediment layer as that is most likely pure yeast.

I've made many batches of beer but still consider myself a beginner. Looking at cultivating yeast and want to confirm a few things at the verge of sounding stupid.

1. So the sludge at the bottom of the primary after initial fermentation is your multiplied and now dormant yeast due to sugar being used, correct? You are saying you can also use the sediment, which contains a smaller amount of yeast, from your secondary as well? As I understand this has gone already one iteration and isn't preferred but will work.

2. You can take an initial volume of liquid yeast, add DME and yeast nutrient, when it's done what would be the part you want to keep? It should look similar to an initial primary fermentation right? With your sludge on the bottom, that's what you keep and store?

3. Once it has fermented you can just store in a sanitized bottle or flask right?

I ask because the closest brew shop is an hour away. Last time I mail ordered liquid yeast and it did not survive the trip. So not only would I like to save a little bit of money by cultivation but limit driving trips being that's the only way liquid yeast makes it to my beer.

bja 07-19-2011 01:35 PM

This thread is pretty old. Try this one.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

benstetson 07-21-2011 12:16 AM

Thanks for the link, that is exactly what I was looking for!


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