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Old 01-22-2013, 08:29 PM   #211
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Oh and lest I forget, to the person who mentioned adding Ergosterol, this was addressed but not tested in several places (Hull's report included). It was also pointed out that while it is available to acquire it's not cheap ($100ish for 5g if memory serves) and has some pretty severe toxicity issues while dealing with it. Not worth messing in my opinion as adding a little harmless oil (assuming no contaminations) has no significant risks barring *MAYBE* head retention but Ergosterol can cause health issues if mishandled. We could differ on that outlook though I suppose.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:34 PM   #212
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From my wife:

Monounsaturated levels:
Canola (Rapeseed): About 60% by weight
Olive: About 70% by weight
Sunflower (High Poly): About 20% by weight
Sunflower (High Mono): Over 80% by weight

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:13 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accidic View Post

If nothing else, I used to enjoy several of the New Belgium offerings around the timeframe of this guys thesis. I don't know or remember anyone saying they definitively used it around that timeframe or not but I wonder if it's the little bit of oomph that's clearly missing from their current offerings. Poor case scenario is I waste a batch or two of potentially good beer to make subpar beer. Worst case scenario is it's undrinkable which doesn't seem too terribly likely judging from the great number of responses. In any event, where's the harm in developing another superstition or two?
If I may summarize your summation you fall into the camp that is can't hurt (much) so we may as well add OO? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess I'm with Denny on this one (if it wasn't obvious already)...that a treatment has to show some sort of positive effect for me to bother with it. Otherwise, where (or how) does one draw the line?

Lastly, I'd be interested to hear why you thought Vance's experiment was circumstantial and incomplete. From my reading, I thought it was much more solid analysis compared to Hull thesis. It is ironic that Hull, with his brewery and university affiliations (cough...money) couldn't pull off a better designed experiment than some dude in his basement.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #214
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It’s an oversimplification to characterize the viewpoints as ‘Why?’ and ‘Why not?’ I would group them as people who haven’t tried it and people who have. People who have tried it seem to like it and continue to use it. People who haven’t are inexplicably opposed. Which is the more compelling evidence?

Vance’s experiment is a question mark. We don’t know anything about the beer. There were two samples labeled OO and O2. How was the oil added? Was it a couple of drops in the starter or a toothpick in the wort?

It never occurred to me that pathogens live in oil. I have been adding it to my starters for years, just before the stirplate. I suppose you could add it to the hot starter wort. Good idea!

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Old 01-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #215
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My whole experience with OO might be moot anyways. I was reading this from another HBT thread:

From the FAQ section on Danstar's website:

Quote:
I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either.
Since I primarily use Dry Yeast and rarely use liquid, I probably am not doing much for the beer by using Olive Oil. However, I still believe I'm not hurting anything either.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:11 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by aiptasia View Post
My issue with it is the flavor of the OO. I recently tried a west coast ale (brewery to remain nameless) that was fed on EVOO and had another one at a bottle share yesterday that I didn't know was treated with OO.

The problem for me is, the olive taste is present in the final beer. Since I cook with EVOO and have several different varieties in my kitchen, I can generally pick it out and differentiate between different types of cooking oils by taste when i'm out at restaurants.

The taste is just foreign to me in beer and I don't like it. It doesn't belong in the flavor profile of most beer styles (vegetable beer the only exception) and I find it disgusting when mixing with hops flavors in a beer like an IPA.

I'm now marking any EVOO beers I come across in untapp'd to avoid buying them in the future.
I've used 1 miniscule drop (put some on a spoon, then let that drip free, then shake off one tiny drip) into the 1.6 ish Liter starter, which gets split to 2 5G batches. I cannot taste the OO. That is all the OO you need according to the research.

I haven't proved positive results from a fermentation standpoint yet, but no off-flavors.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #217
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Wow, what a thread.
I finally went through it after a week of on and off reading.

From all the data and opinions I've read, these are my conclusions so far:

1) Add the OO in the starter and not the wort.

2) Only useful for liquid yeast starter. Don't bother with dry yeast.

3) Only use about half a drop (per 5 gallon wort) of (preferably sanitized) OO a few (5-6) hours before starter is to be poured into the wort.

4) Since oxygenation needs go up with higher OG, it seems that this would be more useful with higher gravity beers.

5) It looks like head retention is not affected by the tiny addition of OO.

6) People with little/no wort oxygenation wort abilities (other than splashing/shaking) seem to be the intended audience here despite the experiment's original goal (i.e. longer shelf stability). Brewers with wort oxygenation abilities need not (necessarily) bother with this method.

How am I doing so far?
Am I in the ballpark?
Did I miss anything?

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:10 PM   #218
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Nailed it. I can’t think of anything you left out.

Brilliant synopsis.

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:33 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrikos View Post
How am I doing so far?
Am I in the ballpark?
Did I miss anything?
Yep - good recap.

Got results from the last batch I brewed. An FG of 1011 when this same beer with same starter usually finishes out at 1014. Now, I added a heater to my temp chamber to better get the diacytl rest, and I changed my fermentation temp schedule. But an encouraging result.

This weekend I'll split the starter for the batch. OO in one, not in the other. No other variables. I ordered an aquarium pump to for future high gravity beers anyway. May take me a year, but I'll collect up a bunch of data and post the results. Someone remind me to post those results in December 2013.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:05 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynne-R View Post
Nailed it. I can’t think of anything you left out.

Brilliant synopsis.

How about...

7) what has mainly been proven so far is that it doesn't hurt. There is no direct evidence that it helps.
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