Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Using Olive oil instead of Oxygen

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2011, 09:24 PM   #111
agenthucky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 246
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad1775 View Post
yes, that is gooood advice. I have done 2 and 3, acctually added trappist high gravity, becuase I bought the wrong yeast to start, but no harm in taking it to THAT yeast's max and then adding WLP099 right??

Certainly going to buy an O2 setup, and get a reading on my fermentation temps, I bet it was a little low, I am turning my thermostat up a bit :-) good an excuse as any right???, I used the only bucket without an LCD thermometer on it (can't wait to get a "Beer Bug")

Just curious where you found out about the "beer bug". a co-worker of mine works at that company. didn't think it was near production.
__________________
agenthucky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2011, 09:30 PM   #112
beerman1957
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sierra Vista AZ, AZ
Posts: 202
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad1775 View Post
yes, that is gooood advice. I have done 2 and 3, acctually added trappist high gravity, becuase I bought the wrong yeast to start, but no harm in taking it to THAT yeast's max and then adding WLP099 right??

Certainly going to buy an O2 setup, and get a reading on my fermentation temps, I bet it was a little low, I am turning my thermostat up a bit :-) good an excuse as any right???, I used the only bucket without an LCD thermometer on it (can't wait to get a "Beer Bug")
At this point I would do what ever it takes. Sure, it may taste a bit "bread-y" but throwing it out is bad too. I once had a batch stick so badly that I took the entire batch and reheated it to about 50C/180F. I was just at the end of the rope here. So, I cooked the yeast to death then re-pitched again. I added two yeast packs and one yeast nutrient and I shook the hell out of my conical fermenter.
Miracle that it actually worked. I can't say it was the best beer I ever drank but it was passable.

I named it Resurrection Ale. I hope I never have to do it again.
__________________
beerman1957 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-31-2011, 07:37 PM   #113
Brad1775
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 83
Likes Given: 1

Default

In the end it restarted pretty quickly, I just added the high gravity yeast, and some sugar, but forgot that I hadn't checked the gravity when it stalled.... it was fine in the end, I haven't finished primary, let alone the several months of secondary, but.... this should be some awesome beer.

__________________
Primary: Eds Aplfelwine 1/19/12, Twin peaks DIPA 1/10/12, BJK 2 hour IPA 12/9/11
Secondary: Hoppys 420 IPA (infected) 10/20/11, Colorado Wildflower Cyser (infected) 10/21/11
Bottled or Kegged:
Over Inflated Rubber Thingy 1/20/11, Fiddle Barn Stout medium american oaked bourbon, 7/20/11, Pumpkin porter 12/17/11, KIPA: Oaked IIPA, ~1/2/2011 (started ~10/2/11), 1/27/12 6% abv sort of Hoegarden clone,
Brad1775 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2012, 01:25 AM   #114
mogur
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Langley, WA
Posts: 2
Liked 4 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Okay, I am violating several rules, here. First, this is an old and moldy thread. Second, I'm a distiller, not a brewer. And third, I have no experience in any of this.

That being said, what theeeeeee crap are you guys talking about? I joined just now to simply post about this issue because what is being discussed is just out in the ozone. Anyone ever read the ENTIRE masters thesis by Hull? He wasn't adding OO to the entire wort; he said-

Quote:
The purpose of this research was to compare the effects of adding olive oil to storage yeast vs. traditional wort aeration. The theory is that the oleic acid in the olive oil will provide the UFAs necessary for yeast growth and proper fermentation, eliminating the need for wort aeration.
That means pre-treating the yeast slurry with oleic acid, replacing the typical process of aerating the entire wort, and thereby improving the resistance to oxidative staling.

This entire thing about micrograms of OO is just pathetic. If anyone ever bothered to read and understand his paper, and I quote-
Quote:
Due to the variation in yeast slurry thickness the amount of olive oil used was based on the total number of cells instead of mg / L of yeast. In the 360 hl batch the olive oil was added to the yeast at a rate of 1 mg / 67 billion cells pitched (15 mg olive oil / L of yeast assuming a count of 1 billion cells / ml). In the 720 hl trial the concentration was increased to 1 mg / 50 billion cells and in the 2100 hl trials the concentration was increased again to 1 mg / 25 billion cells. Aside from the changes previously mentioned with aeration, olive oil addition and fermentation size, all other aspects of production were carried out identically for both the tests and the controls.
What part of this thesis scales down to micro milliliters per 5 gallon batches? His final (successful, btw) ratio was 1 mg per 25 billion cells of pitched yeast. A five gram packet of dried yeast has 90 billion active yeast cells. If you didn't even grow a starter, that is still 3.6 milligrams of olive oil (or 72 normal drops) per liter STARTER. This whole micro-pipette, micro-milliliter discussion is off the charts. And the kicker is that Hull was scaling UP his experiment from many papers that dealt with <1 liter experiments with oleic acid and ergosterol supplementation.

No wonder that experiments with microliters of OO are anecdotal, that is just silly. Try a milliliter or two with a liter starter (not to mention a 20 liter wort) and you might get close to actually testing Hull's hypothesis. And, btw, his results were that a fully qualified panel of expert tasters found his OO batches the same, or slightly better, than the control. Screw you who say that there isn't any scientific evidence. Impanel your own expert tasters to disagree.

As for the claim that if it worked, they would still be using it, you have to read the ENTIRE paper. The drawback wasn't that it didn't work, or that it negatively affected flavor, but that it took slightly longer to attenuate. In the end, economy of production ruled that it wasn't worth the extra fermentation time, not that it didn't accomplish what it set out to do, and that was to stabilize flavor by replacing initial oxidation of the wort.
__________________

Last edited by mogur; 08-21-2012 at 01:29 AM. Reason: removed one letter for grammar
mogur is offline
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2012, 01:32 AM   #115
onthekeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,788
Liked 73 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

I agree with your dissertation. That is part of the reason why it died a long ago.

__________________
onthekeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2012, 02:03 AM   #116
mogur
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Langley, WA
Posts: 2
Liked 4 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthekeg View Post
I agree with your dissertation. That is part of the reason why it died a long ago.
And that is why I am Don Quixote. And why I prefer rum to ergosterol.
__________________
mogur is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2012, 03:31 AM   #117
Wynne-R
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 889
Liked 94 Times on 62 Posts
Likes Given: 74

Default

Cheers Don mogur,

I have never understood why this topic is so emotional. The debate has often been ignorant and irrational. It’s refreshing that someone actually read the paper and the thread. People react viscerally to the idea of oil in their beer, even if it’s in the starter and it’s completely metabolized.

I routinely add 5-6 drops of oil to a half liter starter and it seems to help. It’s not huge, but I don’t see a downside. This is in addition to the aeration from glugging into the carboy through a funnel.

When this first came to my attention years ago, I did two test batches. The olive oil batch had less of a peak in the fermentation. Less high krausen but finishing out about the same time.

Hopefully we can revisit this without the bias. Probably not.

__________________
Wynne-R is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-28-2012, 09:06 AM   #118
ianmatth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Passaic, New Jersey
Posts: 375
Liked 22 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

I liked what mogur said, but a mL of olive oil would weigh 920 mg, so at a rate of of 1 mg / 25 billion cells, even 200 billion cells would have you using less than 0.01 ml, so while isn't isn't micro milliliters, it is still microliters. Maybe a quick spray of olive oil cooking spray would do the trick, just not sure about how the soy lecithin and propellant would affect things.

__________________
ianmatth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-29-2012, 03:57 AM   #119
Calder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,412
Liked 239 Times on 214 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmatth View Post
I liked what mogur said, but a mL of olive oil would weigh 920 mg, so at a rate of of 1 mg / 25 billion cells, even 200 billion cells would have you using less than 0.01 ml, so while isn't isn't micro milliliters, it is still microliters. Maybe a quick spray of olive oil cooking spray would do the trick, just not sure about how the soy lecithin and propellant would affect things.
I didn't read the whole thread, so the information may be there, but they say, if you dip the end of a toothpick in a drop of oil, and then dip the toothpick in the beer, you have added too much.
__________________
Calder is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-29-2012, 05:57 PM   #120
ArcLight
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Millburn, NJ
Posts: 940
Liked 42 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

>.I didn't read the whole thread, so the information may be there, but they say, if you dip the end of a toothpick in a drop of oil, and then dip the toothpick in the beer, you have added too much.

So what if you add an "extra" fraction of one drop. Assuming it's not infected, what possible harm can it cause?

__________________
ArcLight is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Olive Oil Aeration? RedOctober Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 04-13-2013 11:49 PM
Oxygen for airation/can I use industrial oxygen? Mainebrew Equipment/Sanitation 20 10-19-2012 07:45 PM
olive oil? stevenryals Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 02-15-2011 06:36 PM
High gravity, oxygen, and olive oil FlyGuy General Techniques 26 01-25-2011 01:44 PM
Olive Oil? RonRock Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 09-29-2008 01:21 AM