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Old 09-19-2006, 12:05 AM   #1
busmanray
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Default using lager yeast

could someone tell me what would happen if i used a lager yeast in a red ale recipe.but fermment in a cold basement of about 40-50 degrees.i would ferment in 2 stages for about 4 weeks.would it be like a red ale but only smoother?
thanks

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Old 09-19-2006, 12:23 AM   #2
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It would be a red lager. . . smoother, crisper than an ale. Less estery (probably) if you do it right. Depending on your lager strain, I'd recommend a diacetyl rest after the primary unless you really like butterscotch.

Let us know how it turns out.

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Old 09-19-2006, 01:13 AM   #3
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it would still be ok even by just fermenting for a month in an uncontrolled but cold enviroment?a diacetyl rest after the primary? im not sure what u mean.

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Old 09-19-2006, 02:54 AM   #4
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Here's what I do for my lagers (a beer made with lager yeast)--

pitch the yeast/starter, then let the whole thing sit at room temp until it really starts to ferment. Then move it to your lagering "cellar." Keep it there until your airlock pretty much stops (you want a little activity since the "diacetyl rest" needs active yeast). Then move your fermenter back up to room temperature for the next 24-48 hours to have your diacetyl rest. The remaining active yeast will scrub the diacetyl left in your beer (the thing that gives butterscotch flavor). After the diacetyl rest, rack to secondary, then move it back to your "lagering cellar." Some darker beers should be "lagered" at just above freezing, and a gradual reduction in temperature would be ideal, however, if you have a naturally cold cellar, then you will be just fine.


Hope that helps. That's the down and dirty, reader's digest version of lagering.

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Old 09-19-2006, 09:32 AM   #5
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Ok just a small change from what Biermann said.

Pitch your yeast at cold fermenting temps so as to avoid the ester and fussel alcohols that you get when you start a lager at warm temps. the yeast also should be at the tempertures of fermentation and you should pitch a lot of it. areate the dickens out of it also as lager yeast need a lot of o2 to ferment out.

Lager all beer at as close to freezing as you can get for 1 to 2 months or as long as you can resist the urge to drink it.
Making lager isn't hard. Making a good lager takes time and effort, but it is worth it.

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Old 09-20-2006, 02:49 AM   #6
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Lagers are also best if you use softer water (not "water-softener water"). I usually buy water for lager production, and I can tweak the profile as needed.

The aeration thing is very important, especially in heavier gravity beers. In fact, the last lager I made, I used an O2 bottle and a diffusion stone to get it aerated. Pitching rate is also important.

As for the cool/warm start thing. . . I just like to see a little airlock activity before I shove it in the fridge. I guess it doesn't really matter, its just a safety blanket for me.

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Old 09-20-2006, 04:30 PM   #7
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I always laugh when I see people talking about starting a lager fermentation at room temp.

Do you think the yeast will not ferment at cold temps? It is a lager yeast. They are made for fermenting in cold temps.....why would you think that you need to start them at temps that are above their optimum temp range. That will cause the yeast to produce fusil alcohols and esters.

Just as you would do for an ale yeast....you need to cool the wort to a temp that is in your yeast's optimum temp range. If you do not know what that is....look it up!


The diacetyl rest is nothing to forget about or skip. You should always raise and lower temperatures by only 5 degrees per day. You do not want to shock your yeast, but fast temp changes affect flavor, so you want to avoid them.


Lagering takes time. Lagers have a cleaner, less intense flavor, than ales, so you want to make sure you do everything right because you have less flavor to mask mistakes. If you ferment an ale at higher than normal temps, you may be alright because the flavor is more suited to hide off-flavors.

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Old 09-20-2006, 11:21 PM   #8
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A diacetyl rest isn't needed for all lager yeasts. It don't hurt to do one, just that it may not be nesessary. WY2308 usually needs one and I'll do one for this yeast, but for the rest, use your nose during primary ferment. If I smell a lot of sulphur in my fridge, then i do a rest.

I have used WY 2308, 2272, 2278, and saflager S-23 for lagers and only needed a rest for the 2308.

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Old 09-21-2006, 12:49 AM   #9
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thanks guys u have been a great help. heres my next question.
ive done everything we just talked about.its 4 or 5 weeks later,time to bottle
1-do i raise the temp back up to room temp
2-prime it then add more yeast
3-carb at room temp?or cold condition it
4-how long for best carbonation

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Old 09-21-2006, 01:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjones31
I always laugh when I see people talking about starting a lager fermentation at room temp.

Do you think the yeast will not ferment at cold temps? It is a lager yeast. They are made for fermenting in cold temps.....why would you think that you need to start them at temps that are above their optimum temp range. That will cause the yeast to produce fusil alcohols and esters.
Well, it's nice to finally meet a brewer that knows everything and is comfortable enough with his knowledge to be able to laugh at others.

Have a read of this from the Wyeast site (scroll most of the way down the page)

http://www.wyeastlab.com/beprlist.htm#pac

or just read the following cut and paste:



To pitch the yeast: clean the container or package with sanitizing solution. Shake well. Open, and pour the yeast into the fermenter.


Aerate well by stirring vigorously. Seal fermenter with airlock. Keep at 75º F until fermentation begins. Then cool to desired temperature. Signs of fermentation should be evident within one day, depending on yeast strain, brewing procedures, and fermentation temperatures.


FERMENTATION TEMPERATURE RANGE
Ale yeast 60-72 º F; Lager yeast 46-58º F.


Why not email them at brewerschoice@wyeastlab.com so you can laugh at them directly?


Before that, have a read on the FAQ page where it talks about deliberately fermenting a beer at room temperatures with lager yeast.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs/faqmain.htm
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