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zoebisch01 01-07-2008 08:27 PM

Using Brett dregs from a bottle of Orval?
 
So I have heard that Stan Hieronymus suggests to add the dregs from 2 bottles of Orval in a 5 gallon batch to obtain sufficient...Brettiness. I have a single bottle of Orval that I plan on refridgerating the capped dregs of and was wondering would 1 bottle work? Has anyone tried this?

The other alternative I'd imagine is to somehow ramp up the Brett in there, like one would make a started but I fear the danger is overdoing it (too much Brett). And I wouldn't be sure how to proceed.

Of course someone will probably just say "buy the Brett online", which yeah true, but since I have it....why not?

caskconditioned 01-07-2008 08:37 PM

If you do make a starter, I don't think you can add too much brett. The "funky-co-madina" taste that we all love so much will increase with time, not your pitching rate.

P.S. My next batch is also going to be an Orval clone. I've read that the dregs of Orval have more than one strain of Brett so you will get different results than buying a pure culture - but I don't know for certain.

zoebisch01 01-07-2008 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caskconditioned
If you do make a starter, I don't think you can add too much brett. The "funky-co-madina" taste that we all love so much will increase with time, not your pitching rate.

P.S. My next batch is also going to be an Orval clone. I've read that the dregs of Orval have more than one strain of Brett so you will get different results than buying a pure culture - but I don't know for certain.

Hmm, interesting. I was imagining this to be the case, in fact it makes sense as it takes on a life of it's own once the inoculation occurs. The only thing I am concerned with is having enough in the beginning to get a foothold but everything I am reading now seems to indicate a little bit will do but that it could increase the timeline.

Do you plan on fully fermenting with Brett in there, then priming and bottling or are you going to add Brett at the end, cap and let it carbonate?

I found a cool link: http://www.babblebelt.com/projects/b...ranscript.html

caskconditioned 01-07-2008 09:30 PM

Interesting link, thanks.

My plan is to ferment the beer with WLP510 (supposedly Orval's primary strain). I then plan on adding the brett to the beer in the bottling bucket. Bottling with a little extra sugar and storing the bottles at room temp. for about 3 weeks. I then will cellar the beer (my basement is in the low 60s) and wait at least 5 months. I plan on using the big Belgian style champagne bottles.

caskconditioned 01-07-2008 10:34 PM

I just read this old BT article (linky) and it looks like 3 weeks in the secondary with the brett is how they do it at Orval. From what I've read 3 weeks is not enough time for brett to really make a difference but I imagine they do this for to do the dry-hopping before they bottle.

And another interesting thread on Orval (linky).

zoebisch01 01-08-2008 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caskconditioned
I just read this old BT article (linky) and it looks like 3 weeks in the secondary with the brett is how they do it at Orval. From what I've read 3 weeks is not enough time for brett to really make a difference but I imagine they do this for to do the dry-hopping before they bottle.

And another interesting thread on Orval (linky).

Wow that was a great read. Interesting though:

"When I asked Orval's marketing director Fran?ois De Harenne about the adjustment to Orval's bitterness profile, he admitted that changes had occurred, but claimed that EEC regulations limiting nitrosamines from whole hops treated with fertilizer prompted the move to pellets. He was quick to point out that whole flower hops are still used for dry-hopping, where the nitrosamine hazard is less of an issue."

Ok that has me confused. I would imagine there is nothing different in the growing process between hops used for whole hops .vs. pellet hops and therefore why should nitrosamine levels vary between pellet vs. whole???

brewt00l 01-08-2008 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoebisch01
Ok that has me confused. I would imagine there is nothing different in the growing process between hops used for whole hops .vs. pellet hops and therefore why should nitrosamine levels vary between pellet vs. whole???


good question...first thought was due to isomerization/boiling but that wouldn't make a diff.

merkinman 07-16-2010 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoebisch01 (Post 503536)
So I have heard that Stan Hieronymus suggests to add the dregs from 2 bottles of Orval in a 5 gallon batch to obtain sufficient...Brettiness. I have a single bottle of Orval that I plan on refridgerating the capped dregs of and was wondering would 1 bottle work? Has anyone tried this?

The other alternative I'd imagine is to somehow ramp up the Brett in there, like one would make a started but I fear the danger is overdoing it (too much Brett). And I wouldn't be sure how to proceed.

Of course someone will probably just say "buy the Brett online", which yeah true, but since I have it....why not?

:fro:
I am going to do something
Ike this with my next batch, a saison. Since wyeast's bellman saison strain stalls out around 1.035, I think I may add my Orval dregs at that time instead of warming it up like I normally would. I just wonder if 1.035 is too soon. I know many add it at the end of primary fermentation, but this saison yeast has such a high attenuation rate. I am concerned there would not be enough for the brett dregs to eat if i allowed the saison yeast to finish before adding dregs. Maybe I should wait for a lower gravity to pitch the dregs? This would all be done after racking to a secondary where it would age for 8-12 months.
:rockin:


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