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Old 12-19-2011, 10:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeergeek
I've been thinking of pumping chilled wort back into my kettle to whirlpool until the kettle temperature reaches 175*F, THEN adding my flameout hops. I'd imagine the very hot wort world effectively extract hop flavor and aroma, but by knocking the temperature down some 30+ degrees below boiling I'd preserve some delicious volitiles. Anyone doing this?
Yep, I've done it with my plate chiller. Or rather, something pretty similar. I recirculate while chilling until it gets down to about 180. Then I connect my Hop Rocket (hopback) inline, and recirculate with chiller's water flow turned off for about 15 minutes, before directing flow to the fermentor and resuming chilling (with Hop Rocket still connected).

But I find it easier, and the results better, if I just have the Hop Rocket connected the whole time and recirculate with the chiller operating at a slow rate until I hit the target temp. Or just using the hopback normally even. In fact, the results you're looking to get are make hopbacks so awesome!
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:59 PM   #22
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What's the best way to hopback with pellets? I pretty much figure flameout hop additions are the same.

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Old 12-20-2011, 01:09 AM   #23
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:48 AM   #24
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RESULTS: I do this extended flameout whirlpool on any beer that I want the hops to shine on. I do estimate that I am finding a little extra bitterness, but I have been scaling back my bittering additions to compensate. I have found that for a good Pale ale I get best results with a 60, under 10, and whirlpool addition. Then if I want that fresh hop taste I throw whole hops in a new grain bag direct into the keg. Sometimes I dry hop, but really only on an IPA, Otherwise this is fully sufficient for my tastes.

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Old 01-04-2013, 03:21 AM   #25
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I would follow the HWC method....Hot kettle hop, Warm hop steep, Cold dryhop.

Aromatic hop oils are very sensitive and offer a variety of flavor/aroma traits depending on when they are added to the wort. With the above referenced method, you get the best the hops have to offer at different phases.

Hot Boil-Kettle Hops - approx. 90-60 min. boil @ 212-200 F (most bitterness offered, some aroma)
Warm Post-Boil Steep - approx. 30-20 min. @ 160-100 F (no bitterness, good aromatic compounds form, which are not offered by boil or dryhop)
Cold Dryhop - approx. 10-7 days @ 68-62 F (no bitterness, ultimate aroma, but quite different from that of the warm steep)

FYI - I notice best results with pellet hops...especially for the last two stages. They dissolve quicker and offer more potent aroma in a shorter time frame.

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Old 01-04-2013, 04:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
I would follow the HWC method....Hot kettle hop, Warm hop steep, Cold dryhop.

Aromatic hop oils are very sensitive and offer a variety of flavor/aroma traits depending on when they are added to the wort. With the above referenced method, you get the best the hops have to offer at different phases.

Hot Boil-Kettle Hops - approx. 90-60 min. boil @ 212-200 F (most bitterness offered, some aroma)
Warm Post-Boil Steep - approx. 30-20 min. @ 160-100 F (no bitterness, good aromatic compounds form, which are not offered by boil or dryhop)
Cold Dryhop - approx. 10-7 days @ 68-62 F (no bitterness, ultimate aroma, but quite different from that of the warm steep)

FYI - I notice best results with pellet hops...especially for the last two stages. They dissolve quicker and offer more potent aroma in a shorter time frame.
For the record I agree. I am minimizing late boil additions in favor of flameout additons... I wait for the kettle to cool pretty dramatically, but not as much as mentioned above because I intend to have a very quick cooling time between 160 and 65 because this is the range that is susceptible to infection.

One might gain more flavor by adding additions cooler but I have been conservative regarding standing wort under 160...perhaps I am too worried.

Certainly, I prefer my flameout to be under 180- to eliminate some of the volatile properties associated with high heat.

What is your process to introduce hop aroma at 100-160 with no risk of infection?

I am using a counter-flow chill but also have access to an immersion chiller.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
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...I intend to have a very quick cooling time between 160 and 65 because this is the range that is susceptible to infection.

One might gain more flavor by adding additions cooler but I have been conservative regarding standing wort under 160...perhaps I am too worried.

Certainly, I prefer my flameout to be under 180- to eliminate some of the volatile properties associated with high heat.

What is your process to introduce hop aroma at 100-160 with no risk of infection?

I am using a counter-flow chill but also have access to an immersion chiller.
I don't like the warm aroma steep at very hot temps, since I want to keep more of those delicate compounds that may be driven off by too hot a temp. I think I read somewhere that much of the Myrcene within the hops is driven off around 167 F. And the coincidence is that all of my favorite hops are very high in Myrcene.

I add my coil wort-chiller with the lid on the kettle until the temp. of wort reaches approx. 160-165 F. At that point, I remove the wort chiller and then slow chill the rest of the way down to 60 F-ish using an ice-bath, which takes me about 20-30 minutes. The kettle lid is still on during this process.

So it all works out in the end for my system. You won't get an infection from the warm steep as long as you don't dip your fingers in or drool over your wort. I'm very careful when it comes to sanitation being a professional chef with a ServSafe certificate. I brew indoors the majority of the time too, so I usually don't have to worry about dirt, wind, other particulates which can cause infection.

I actually never had an infection due to improper sanitation practices. And when it comes to chilling the wort as quickly as possible to pitching temps in order to promote clarity, my IPAs are always crystal clear despite slow chilling, using an inordinate amount of oily hops, neglecting to cold crash or using refiners like gelatin.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #28
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Just a comment on sanitation:

I've been following bob's method above (chill quickly to 160ish, add hops, slow chill for 30mins or so) exclusively for hoppy beers.

I brew outdoors, often in the wind, only partially covering the wort...and have never had any infection problems. The hops certainly help protect, and I promptly pitch ample quantities of healthy, active yeast. So I wouldn't worry about it.

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Old 01-05-2013, 07:04 AM   #29
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Ummm...you guys seem pretty experienced in these hoppy type techniques, ever try mash hops?

I guess I might just search it.

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