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Old 12-19-2011, 01:30 AM   #11
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How would you compensate/figure IBU for this style of steep. I do this always on my hop styles, but have trouble figuring the IBU. I know I'm getting added bitterness with this addition because all my score sheets are getting deductions from being too hoppy for the style.



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Old 12-19-2011, 03:38 AM   #12
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Too hoppy can also mean too much hop aroma or flavor. I've read over and over there's no bitterness or IBU's added by flame out additions, but I would think you'd get some level of IBU gain from a flame out addition considering the temperature.



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Old 12-19-2011, 04:00 AM   #13
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I've read over and over there's no bitterness or IBU's added by flame out additions, but I would think you'd get some level of IBU gain from a flame out addition considering the temperature.
That's right. According to JZ and Palmer, 175* is about the minimum for isomerization of alpha acids. So basically from flame out to 175* you're going to get additional IBUs from any late additions / whirlpool additions. Unfortunately, the various calculations that estimate IBUs (ie. Rager and Tinsenth) are all flawed in some way or another and don't take this into account very well so your software might not assign any IBUs, but you'll get them.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:14 AM   #14
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I have been doing tons of post boil additions lately. My last two beers used 6 ounces of hops after flameout.

I throw a couple ounces in right at flameout, mostly to get a little bitterness and flavor. Then throw in a couple more ounces at like 170*, these are just hot enough to extract the desired compounds without evaporating away. Finally I threw in a couple ounces at around 120* to simulate an accelerated dry hop.

I then dry hopped 2 ounces primary and will rack onto 2 more ounces in the keg.

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Old 12-19-2011, 05:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesilential View Post
I have been doing tons of post boil additions lately. My last two beers used 6 ounces of hops after flameout.

I throw a couple ounces in right at flameout, mostly to get a little bitterness and flavor. Then throw in a couple more ounces at like 170*, these are just hot enough to extract the desired compounds without evaporating away. Finally I threw in a couple ounces at around 120* to simulate an accelerated dry hop.

I then dry hopped 2 ounces primary and will rack onto 2 more ounces in the keg.
Wow, point taken. How were these beers. Are you describing a 5 gallon batch, or bigger. At 5 gallons that would be a ton of hops.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by HopLife

Wow, point taken. How were these beers. Are you describing a 5 gallon batch, or bigger. At 5 gallons that would be a ton of hops.
6 gal batches, 5.5 in bucket.

They also had a couple ounces of first wort hops for bittering . Keep in mind, aside from the FWH addition none of the hops were boiled at all.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonacel

That's right. According to JZ and Palmer, 175* is about the minimum for isomerization of alpha acids. So basically from flame out to 175* you're going to get additional IBUs from any late additions / whirlpool additions. Unfortunately, the various calculations that estimate IBUs (ie. Rager and Tinsenth) are all flawed in some way or another and don't take this into account very well so your software might not assign any IBUs, but you'll get them.
This is largely true, but one also needs to keep in mind that the rate of isomerization falls RAPIDLY, and that what happens in 5 minutes at 210° will likely take more than an hour at 180°. This is why people are able to no-chill without just ending up with all bitterness and absolutely no flavor or aroma.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesilential View Post
I have been doing tons of post boil additions lately. My last two beers used 6 ounces of hops after flameout.

I throw a couple ounces in right at flameout, mostly to get a little bitterness and flavor. Then throw in a couple more ounces at like 170*, these are just hot enough to extract the desired compounds without evaporating away. Finally I threw in a couple ounces at around 120* to simulate an accelerated dry hop.

I then dry hopped 2 ounces primary and will rack onto 2 more ounces in the keg.
I want to taste that...

Has anyone experienced problems with DMS while not cooling quickly? Also, I read that it is better to leave the kettle un-covered during cooling. Although some hop aroma compounds will leave the beer, but also DMS precursors are leaving when left uncovered??
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesilential View Post
I have been doing tons of post boil additions lately. My last two beers used 6 ounces of hops after flameout.

I throw a couple ounces in right at flameout, mostly to get a little bitterness and flavor. Then throw in a couple more ounces at like 170*, these are just hot enough to extract the desired compounds without evaporating away. Finally I threw in a couple ounces at around 120* to simulate an accelerated dry hop.

I then dry hopped 2 ounces primary and will rack onto 2 more ounces in the keg.
I like the way that sounds. I drop a lot of hops in at flameout on IPA's and now I'm going to try something like what you are doing. I have a sickness for endless hop flavor/aroma. I can't ever seem to get enough. There's nothing like a great batch of nugget nectar which is similar to what I always aim for.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:44 PM   #20
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I've been thinking of pumping chilled wort back into my kettle to whirlpool until the kettle temperature reaches 175*F, THEN adding my flameout hops. I'd imagine the very hot wort world effectively extract hop flavor and aroma, but by knocking the temperature down some 30+ degrees below boiling I'd preserve some delicious volitiles. Anyone doing this?



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