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Old 07-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #11
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In that recipe, I can say that I see two reasons for the lack of hoppiness. One is the relatively large amount of crystal malt 11% is a lot of crystal in an IPA. It's alot even for an APA but in an IPA a better amount would be 5% or under, or even none at all. Too much crystal can "mute" the hops flavor quite a bit. The second thing I see is the hops schedule leans toward bitterness, and not late hops, although dryhopping can help with that immensely.

What's your water profile like? 10 grams of gypsum in a 5 gallon batch sounds like a lot to me.

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:14 PM   #12
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11%+ crystal malt in an IPA could mute hop focus. I would cut it out completely given your goal, or reduced to below 5% of the grist. If you want an extreme grapefruit hop BOMB, then you'll need to be more subtle with the malt bill. That doesn't mean it has to be simple. Take a look at a couple of these commerically cloned IPAs/IPAs. They usually have 85-90% 2-row and 3-7% munich, wheat, carapils, sugar, crystal, honey, etc. - not 12-20%.

You might be overdoing it on the gypsum. 10g seems like a lot. Have you ever had an analysis of your water done?

Willamette and Citra are not citrusy hops. One is earthy, the other is tropical. Stick with pellet hops (at least for late in the boil and the dryhop).

Here would be a very general revamp of the hop schedule for a 5 gal batch of highly aromatic, citrusy IPA:

Warrior, Chinook, or Columbus - Boil 60-90 min, 25-35 IBUs
Warrior, Chinook, or Columbus - Boil 30-20 min, 15-25 IBUs
2 oz. Centennial, Chinook, Cascade, Summit, or Amarillo combo at 15 min
Adjust IBUs with a small 7-5 min addition of more of the same
2 oz. 20-30 min Warm Aroma Steep of more of the same
3 oz. 7-10 day Dryhop of more of the same

Clean American Ale yeast, ferment in the mid 60s

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:15 PM   #13
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Looking at your recipe, I'd move more of your hops toward the end of the boil. I don't think *much* difference comes from spacing five minute additions between 30-15 minutes. If aroma is what you're after then I'd put more quantity toward the end, like knockout hops, and toward dry hops. Three ounces of Cascade as dry-hops won't have the same aroma punch as three ounces of Centennial, for example.

Five ounces is a lot to use between the thirty to ten minute mark, compared to 1.5-2 ounces in the last five minutes. To me switching those quantities (1-2 ounces in the 30-10 span) and 3-5 ounces in the five to zero time) would yield better results.

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:28 PM   #14
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Yooper, Bobbrews and Cram for the 5-4-3 triple play. Good advice on the grain bill and hop schedule. I do disagree with Bobbrews on the use of Citra. I found favorable CITRUS like results when combined with Centennial, Summit or Amarillo. I have yet to use it all by it's lonesome, though.

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post

Willamette and Citra are not citrusy hops. One is earthy, the other is tropical. Stick with pellet hops (at least for late in the boil and the dryhop).

Here would be a very general revamp of the hop schedule for a 5 gal batch of highly aromatic, citrusy IPA:

Warrior, Chinook, or Columbus - Boil 60-90 min, 25-35 IBUs
Warrior, Chinook, or Columbus - Boil 30-20 min, 15-25 IBUs
2 oz. Centennial, Chinook, Cascade, Summit, or Amarillo combo at 15 min
Adjust IBUs with a small 7-5 min addition of more of the same
2 oz. 20-30 min Warm Aroma Steep of more of the same
3 oz. 7-10 day Dryhop of more of the same

Clean American Ale yeast, ferment in the mid 60s
Is a warm aroma steep done while cooling? Would a FWH yield similar results? I try to get my wort down to pitch temps asap. More for clarity than fear of contamination.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddad View Post
Yooper, Bobbrews and Cram for the 5-4-3 triple play. Good advice on the grain bill and hop schedule. I do disagree with Bobbrews on the use of Citra. I found favorable CITRUS like results when combined with Centennial, Summit or Amarillo. I have yet to use it all by it's lonesome, though.
Citra is melony and reminiscent of lychee fruit. It's very perfumey. Even when combined with other hops, it tends to dominate and a little bit goes a lonnggg way.

Despite the name it's not citrusy at all. Combine it with Amarillo and it becomes even better. They're like peas and carrots. Any grapefruit you get is from the Amarillo though, not the Citra. So you're really not disagreeing with me especially because you've never used Citra on its own and are saying that the citrus came from Summit, Centennial, and/or Amarillo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddad View Post
Is a warm aroma steep done while cooling? Would a FWH yield similar results? I try to get my wort down to pitch temps asap. More for clarity than fear of contamination.
FWH is nothing like a warm aroma steep. I don't like FWH for IPAs anyway. You're better off bittering with less hops or choosing a low cohumulone variety if you are uber-sensitive.

Never had a problem with clarity or infection, and I've even used the no chill (overnight method). Clarity is not solely affected by the time it takes to chill your wort after the boil. There are many other factors and steps you can take to prevent having a cloudy beer.

Post-boil warm aroma steep (my way) is done like this:

1) Quickly cool wort after boil to 160 F. Do not add flameout hops.
2) Remove wort chiller and rely on a slow-working ice bath for the rest of your cooling.
3) Add your post-boil hops for a warm aroma steep from 160-ish to 65 F during the course of 20-30 min.
4) Rack and ferment as usual.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #17
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I don't know, this years zombie dust was kind of grapefruity. Thinking it might be a 2011 crop thing.

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
In that recipe, I can say that I see two reasons for the lack of hoppiness. One is the relatively large amount of crystal malt 11% is a lot of crystal in an IPA. It's alot even for an APA but in an IPA a better amount would be 5% or under, or even none at all. Too much crystal can "mute" the hops flavor quite a bit. The second thing I see is the hops schedule leans toward bitterness, and not late hops, although dryhopping can help with that immensely.

What's your water profile like? 10 grams of gypsum in a 5 gallon batch sounds like a lot to me.
Good to know about the crystal (although Ive done a pure 2 row only one with simlar results hopwise). My water is DC water which is very very soft.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:49 PM   #19
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I would've done Amarillo and cascade exclusively (with citra as my bittering) but the LHBS was out of amarillo. my favorite beer of this style is Rogues Yellow Snow which is Amarillo heavy, but even when i tried it then i couldn't get that intense matching aroma and taste.

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Old 07-26-2012, 09:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42 View Post
"grapefruit hop BOMB"

A common problem is using large amounts of ONE hop for dry hopping, looks like what you did. You don't get a complex, intense nose that way.

Try this: mix 1 oz each of Perle, Cascades and Amarillo. Use 1 oz of the mix at 10 minutes, 1 oz @ 5 and use the rest to dry hop AFTER the fermentation is done. This replaces your last five adds. It will smell and taste like grapefruit juice.
I'm curious, why use perle hops? they don't seem to match the style of citrusy hop flavor that im going for.
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