Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Trub separation
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2013, 04:21 PM   #1
TrickyDick
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,151
Liked 148 Times on 118 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default Trub separation

Stupid question here. Tried doing a fast search but didn't really come up with what I was looking for.

Really what this amounts to is whirlpool or no whirlpool.
Right now I don't whirlpool. I have a boilermaker with a hop blocker, though I also use hop sacks. I'm mostly wanting to remove the hot break, and possibly cold break. The hop blocker prevents formation of an adequate whirlpool. I'm not ready to jump to drilling holes for a recirculation type whirlpool, but will say that doing a manual stir just doesn't work.
One option that occurred to me is to let the wort settle in the conical before pitching (during clean up for instance) and then open the dump valve to eliminate the trub before pitching. Anyone else do this? Any pros or cons? One benefit I can see is that its free. One con is that I often reserve my conical for lagers and depending on my brewing schedule, it might not be available when I would need it.

Thanks

TD

__________________
TrickyDick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 07:53 PM   #2
daksin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
daksin's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,150
Liked 283 Times on 245 Posts
Likes Given: 325

Default

There's no real reason to separate the trub from the fermenting beer, and contact with some trub may be beneficial to yeast health. If it bothers you from an aesthetic perspective, you can dump the trub out of the conical, but it's not necessary.

__________________

I can't be arsed to keep up this list of what's in the fermenters, but hey, check out the cool brewery I own!

twitter.com/2kidsbrewing .. facebook.com/2kidsbrewing .. 2kidsbrewing.com

daksin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 09:24 PM   #3
geeeorge99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Default

whats the size of yo ur brew system for your nano brewery?

__________________
geeeorge99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2013, 03:29 AM   #4
TrickyDick
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,151
Liked 148 Times on 118 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

I brew 11 gallons at a time to collect 10 gallons of finished beer most times

__________________
TrickyDick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2013, 03:27 PM   #5
inthesound
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 127
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts

Default

You could definitely collect all the wort from your brew kettle into the conical, wait 30 minutes or so and open the dump valve, the pitch. I've heard of some breweries doing this. However, you introduce a couple more chances for infections/contaminations to occur.

I suppose the real question is, are you trying to get the most beer, or the clearest beer? If you have time (which is always the professional brewer's enemy), you should be able to blow off yeast and cold crash the beer before moving it, giving you a relatively clean transfer. We typically blow off yeast a couple times a day, over the course of a couple days if we can, before transferring.

Good luck, and of course, cheers!

__________________
inthesound is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2013, 03:35 PM   #6
TrickyDick
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,151
Liked 148 Times on 118 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthesound
You could definitely collect all the wort from your brew kettle into the conical, wait 30 minutes or so and open the dump valve, the pitch. I've heard of some breweries doing this. However, you introduce a couple more chances for infections/contaminations to occur.

I suppose the real question is, are you trying to get the most beer, or the clearest beer? If you have time (which is always the professional brewer's enemy), you should be able to blow off yeast and cold crash the beer before moving it, giving you a relatively clean transfer. We typically blow off yeast a couple times a day, over the course of a couple days if we can, before transferring.

Good luck, and of course, cheers!
More chance of infection because of?? Delay in pitching?

The real question is not the most beer, but a better tasting beer. I currently don't really eliminate the hot break, or cold break. It clogs up my plate chiller along with hop particles and I can't really achieve a whirlpool without drilling my equipment for a recirculating setup made just for doing a whirlpool. Seems much frustration could be avoided by just dumping trub from conical after letting rest for a while during clean most likely. Time isn't really a factor either.

What specifically are you talking about blow off and cold crash before moving it? Are you talking after primary fermentation? I'm pretty new at using the conical, and seems I may be denying myself some of the benefits.

Thanks!

TD
__________________
TrickyDick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2013, 03:36 PM   #7
TrickyDick
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,151
Liked 148 Times on 118 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daksin
There's no real reason to separate the trub from the fermenting beer, and contact with some trub may be beneficial to yeast health. If it bothers you from an aesthetic perspective, you can dump the trub out of the conical, but it's not necessary.
I have read the hot break is undesirable in fermenter, while some cold break on the contrary may be beneficial.

TD
__________________
TrickyDick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-27-2013, 12:04 AM   #8
biertourist
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 655
Liked 65 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

You can definitely just dump trub off the bottom valve if you have a conical. I did this for years. The amount of kettle finings that you use will determine how fluffy your trub ends up and therefore how much beer you waste by doing this. (You'll want to use the minimum quantity possible.)

-Professional breweries use a plastic "imhoff cone" to determine the right quantity of finings to use for each beer.



Despite most home brewers wishes and constant mantra-like repeating to the contrary, the overwhelming majority of the professional literature says that trub (hot AND cold break) is generally detrimental to beer flavor although it can create nucleation sites which decreases CO2 quantities which can increase yeast health/ fermentation performance. (Or you can just shake your fermenter every 12 hours and do the same thing... Or perform "beech wood chip aging" like a certain mega brewery to increase nucleation sites.)


Two pretty old articles that make the case (sources quoted): http://morebeer.com/brewingtechnique...4/barchet.html Hot Trub
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechnique...2/barchet.html Cold Trub

ASBC article that says the same thing (requires a login for more than the abstract): http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstr...sues/40-12.htm
Part of another ASBC article that says the same thing:
http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/docum.../Stla81b00.pdf


That small quantity of trub that is beneficial is a very small quantity, especially for home brewers.


Adam

__________________
biertourist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-27-2013, 02:13 AM   #9
TrickyDick
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,151
Liked 148 Times on 118 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

Thanks Adam!

I also read that kettle pH can affect the character of hot break. At any rate, I currently only have ONE conical, which I tend to reserve for doing lagers, but as you know, I've been looking into alternative fermentation vessels and temp control. Built a walk in basement addition, and did a bunch of ale brews in the spring and the temp was ideal, but in the summer, is just too hot to get ideal ale fermentation temps without turning on the costly A/C which I don't think can really get the room below 70 throughout, maybe cool spots at 68, probably because there is no air-return. So this is not going to work for me and I need for now, an ale fermentation space, and since I have only the one conical (wandering off topic) the thought occured to me to get some plastic conical temp controlled fermentors.

Will read those articles.

Thanks!

TD

__________________
TrickyDick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yeast Washing - Lots of Trub, no color separation... Evan! General Techniques 11 01-18-2012 03:15 PM
Is yeast/trub separation really necessary in harvesting? Datchew Fermentation & Yeast 4 05-19-2010 01:05 PM
trub separation? nuthin_original General Techniques 9 04-20-2010 01:47 PM
Separation barracudamagoo Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 11-05-2009 07:47 PM
Separation in fermenter Mike-H Extract Brewing 10 09-25-2006 06:33 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS