Starter is the way of the future

It's been said, but starters are the way to go. Not only do they tell you that your yeast is alive, but they make your beer go bonkers right away. I did my Irish Red two days ago. We did a starter for it that was bubbling like mad when we pitched it. After we were done brewing I went to bed, and when I woke up there was a sticky looking hop residue on the top of the carboy, obviously from a krausen, but the krausen had already fallen. Inside the carboy bits of yeast and hop residue were swirling around in obvious currents due to convection. It was the most alive my beer has ever looked. It was psychedelic. It was awesome.

Use a starter.

I know what you mean. I brewed up my pale ale yesturday. Within 1 hour of pitching yeast, my blow off tube was.....well blowing off The beer last night was keeping me up for due to all the noise from the tube. I looked at it this morning and I have about 5" of krausen and the wort looks like it is boiling. This is my third beer using a starter and I will never go back.

...oh goody! more "starter" converts...

Well, I have yet to do a starter. I've been a lazy "dump the dried yeast in" brewer so far.

It is definitely something I want to do, and these posts certainly convince me it is the way to go. I have a Wyeast London Ale III, that I want to use for several brews if I can...I understand you can do this by producing one big starter with some boiled up DME, and then split it into several bottles and store in the fridge?

Yes, you can, but if you are going to make a starter from a vial why don't you just shake it up and make a starter with just half of it? Save the other half for later. Unless you are going to brew two batches close together (in time).

I presume you would just dump the unused half in a sterilised bottle and dump in the fridge? Would you need an airlock on the bottle?

Is it not possible to span it out over more than two starters?

Question, questions...

BlightyBrewer said:

I presume you would just dump the unused half in a sterilised bottle and dump in the fridge? Would you need an airlock on the bottle?

Is it not possible to span it out over more than two starters?

Question, questions...

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From what I have read, you let the yeast ferment out completely. Then transfer to a steril bottle and cap. Stick it in the fridge and it should be ok for around a month or so. This is the same as using yeast from your primary fermentation with the exception of washing it.

I presumed the unused half was still in the vial...

If you did not add any malt to the unused yeast there's no need for it to be vented (with an airlock).

It's possible to stretch your yeast (very) thinly, but you would have to make 1 starter after another (doubling) to bring up the yeast count for pitching. Too much work. Could add several more days to the process.

The reason I recommended using only half a vial was that this is usually more than enough for a starter. Of course, you must remember that you make them 2 days ahead of brewing, not 12 hours prior to ensure you actually build up the yeast count for a good healthy start in your primary.

Thanks for all the info guys!

Now I'm ready to make a starter!

homebrewer_99 said:

Of course, you must remember that you make them 2 days ahead of brewing, not 12 hours prior to ensure you actually build up the yeast count for a good healthy start in your primary.

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Good point. I have found 48 hours to be the best. It usually takes my starters to ferment out in 40 hours or so. I am usually pitching a 1/2to 3/4 inch cake from my growler.

anthrobe said:

From what I have read, you let the yeast ferment out completely. Then transfer to a steril bottle and cap. Stick it in the fridge and it should be ok for around a month or so. This is the same as using yeast from your primary fermentation with the exception of washing it.

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True, but the yeast from the primary has too much junk in it that I believe would affect the flavor and vitality of the yeast.

Remember, one reason you rack to the secondary is to get the brew off of the yeast to prevent off-flavors.

Now, a word of caution...I've bottled yeast directly to a bottle from the primary. If not properly vented pressure will build up in the bottle and when opened will produce a very forceful geyser. This, I believe, is caused by the junk in the primary that was not seperated and the fact that the beer was not done fermenting. When you wash the yeast you seperate (remove) the beer sugar from the yeast and replace it with sterile water - fermentation de-activated.

Is there a real benefit from doing the "high gravity" starter? According to what I've read, you ferment out the yeast, and then chill it so the yeast settles. You then decant off the liquid and pour in new wort. I guess the idea is to really up your yeast count.
If this is a good idea, how high of a gravity would require this? I am getting ready to brew a porter with a target OG of 1.070-1.080. Would this be recommended?

I know someone out there put a "recipe" for pitch sizes together with recommended sizes.

I would think you would need at least double of what you usually pitch.

Is there an advantage to a starter other than speeding up the process? Or is that the whole point?

A second advantage to a yeast starter is that I get enough yeast going for 2 or 3 batches. So, it cuts costs a bit. But, the fast start is best reason.

Prowler 13 said:

Is there an advantage to a starter other than speeding up the process? Or is that the whole point?

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Speeding up the process is the second most important thing about a starter. The number one point is to make sure your yeast is alive.

I'd rather make a starter and wait 2 days to find my yeast dead than brew up a batch and not have any yeast... . What do you do with your batch? Toss in a dry yeast, wrong for the style? I don't think so.

Prowler 13 said:

Is there an advantage to a starter other than speeding up the process? Or is that the whole point?

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A starter is key to helping get a good all out ferment. So many times, people worry about many issues when it comes to brewing, but so often over look the backbone of brewing, which is to get the best fermentation you can possibly get. You can have the best water, best grain, fanciest adjuncts, and costliest strain of yeast...but unless you get a good, complete ferment, you are basically wasting money and time.

To truly make a great homebrew, your main focus needs to be on fermentation. Choose the right strain for your style, and propagate it with a starter, and pitch at the proper temperature. The result will be both a very active ferment, as well as the most complete fermentation you can ever achieve. Pitching a tube, or slap pack will give you a decent ferment, but too much time and energy is spent by the lower number of yeast cells trying to get established and multiply. With a starter, you've already multiplied the yeast, and with more yeast cells, you get a quicker start, and more of a complete ferment.

BlightyBrewer said:

It is definitely something I want to do, and these posts certainly convince me it is the way to go. I have a Wyeast London Ale III, that I want to use for several brews if I can...I understand you can do this by producing one big starter with some boiled up DME, and then split it into several bottles and store in the fridge?

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I've done exactly that twice now. I let them peter out the previous times before I sealed the bottles and popped them into the fridge. I was told by someone more knowledgeable than I that one should stick the yeast you split off into the fridge while they're still in the log phase (active growth) for best results. Check out the last several posts of this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4730

anthrobe said:

From what I have read, you let the yeast ferment out completely. Then transfer to a steril bottle and cap. Stick it in the fridge and it should be ok for around a month or so. This is the same as using yeast from your primary fermentation with the exception of washing it.

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Actually, you don't want to let the yeast ferment out completely before you bottle it and pop it in the fridge. Check out the thread I mentioned above.

hombrewer_99 said:

Speeding up the process is the second most important thing about a starter. The number one point is to make sure your yeast is alive.

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Third reason: you really should do it for high gravity beer. The White Labs site strongly recommends one for anything over 1.070 SG. I've done it for every batch just to make sure those little buggers are kicking and to double (or quadruple if I re-pitch) the quantity. The faster they convert the sugar to alcohol, the harder time any rogue nasties have doing any damage to the wort.

Actually I use a liquid yeast and, per the recipe, correct for the style. The recipe I got with the kit didn't call for using a starter. Yes, I am a newbie and just trying to understand how to make beer correctly & effectively.

Prowler 13 said:

Actually I use a liquid yeast and, per the recipe, correct for the style. The recipe I got with the kit didn't call for using a starter. Yes, I am a newbie and just trying to understand how to make beer correctly & effectively.

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I have yet to see a recipe or instructions for beginners that will call for a starter. This is something that you will be upgrading to. Tricks of the trade.
I have always used liquid yeast. Even for my starters

everytime i talk of starters to my old hbs they cringe and say "you dont need a startrer". but i have found that my lag times went from 24-36 hrs. down to 0-5 hrs. i also read that pitching the appropriate amount of yeast will reduce unwanted amounts of off flavors produced by the small pitching rate.

after looking through the 'winner edition' zymurgy, i looked at all the winning recipes for last year, and just about everyone used a starter of at least 1 qt.

Prowler 13 said:

Actually I use a liquid yeast and, per the recipe, correct for the style. The recipe I got with the kit didn't call for using a starter. Yes, I am a newbie and just trying to understand how to make beer correctly & effectively.

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most don't say to make a starter unless it's a big beer like a barleywine or imperial stout style of brew. no worries. just try one on your next bacth. i promise your lag times will drop big time, and you'll have a happier brew!

I have been doing what I have been calling "mini starters" since my first batch. I hydrate the dry yeast for 30 minutes, and then mix in some boiled/cooled DME, and let that get going good for a couple hours before I am ready to pitch. I see good action in the airlock by the next morning after a brew night.

Next batch, I am making a full starter a day or two before.

...saying "you don't need a starter" is like saying "you don't need a hydrometer"

Oops! Did I say that out loud??

homebrewer_99 said:

...saying "you don't need a starter" is like saying "you don't need a hydrometer"

Oops! Did I say that out loud??

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your soooo busted!

homebrewer_99 said:

True, but the yeast from the primary has too much junk in it that I believe would affect the flavor and vitality of the yeast.

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Actually, I've done it this way twice now and it has worked quite well! I poured off as much leftover liquid as I could from the primary, swirled, then dumped the yeast/trub ooze into a large, sterilized jar and did the yeast washing as usual. I then transfered the washed yeast to a sterilized 22 oz. bottle, capped it and put it in the fridge. After about 4-5 months, I got it out of the fridge and made a new starter, same as before. Contrary to what I had feared might happen, there were no ill affects or off-flavors! The previous ale was a stout, the 'post-wash' ale was an irish red!

Congrats! I like success stories...

Have just kegged 40ish pints of brewpacks best bitter(on sunday) and started a new brew of 19th century IPA,this time i re-hydrated the yeast and then fed it some corn sugar(after about 15 mins)that had been mixed with boiled water.
I then left it in the cupboard(next to the hot water tank)for an hour,by then it was foaming ok.First time i have tried this and it has really worked well.Pitched the yeast at 1.30pm UK time on sunday and as i crashed at 10pm it was the airlock was bubbling real slow!!.
Woke up for work at 6.15am went down to the brewhouse(sorry dining room),sucker was blowing real good(once or more a second).
Will make sure i prepare the yeast for longer next time!
I used brupaks dried ale yeast so not sure what strain it is(6g pack).
Seems to work so i will experiment more!!!

Sorry for being a dumb Englishman but how does one go about collecting,washing and storing yeast from the trub?
I am intersted to know as i usually keg one from the fermentor and then start another brew(kits that is).Could i restart that old yeast quickly?

Please help!!!!!

oxford brewer said:

Sorry for being a dumb Englishman, but how does one go about collecting,washing and storing yeast from the trub?...

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Nothing dumb about that question! Take a look here! Also, for more on starters, take a look at this FAQ.

oxford brewer said:

Sorry for being a dumb Englishman but how does one go about collecting,washing and storing yeast from the trub?

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There are several threads with details, but in a nutshell: After siphoning the wort off of the trub, pour a cup or two of sanitized water in the carboy/bucket and swirl around real well to get all the trub off of the bottom, then pour into a sanitized jar or jars (1 gallon jug, 4 quart jars, whatever). Cap the jar and shake well, then vent a little and set aside until the trub starts to settle. After about 2 or 3 hours you'll notice the top layer of the sediment will start to turn a little whiter...at this point pour the liquid off of the trub into another sanitized jar and put it in the fridge. After a few days all of the least will settle out and you'll be left with clear liquid on top, which you can discard prior to pitching the yeast into a new starter.

For the "venting" part, I usually just lay a piece of paper towel over the top and hold it in place with a rubber band.

Good short descrip there ELP (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, or for the later crowd, Powell - Played the hell out of "Tocata").

homebrewer_99 said:

Good short descrip there ELP (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, or for the later crowd, Powell - Played the hell out of "Tocata").

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I always was a lucky man.

homebrewer_99 said:

...Played the hell out of "Tocata").

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Karn Evil #9 for me! Brain Salad Surgery is definately a great album!

Wore two of them out... (LP and cassette)

What? No 8 track?

I never got into 8-track because they split the songs (sometimes).

I still have a 4-track (10 inch reel-to-reel)! But I have a 5:1 SS connected to my 65" HDTV so I'm not that
far back in the past...and I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...(don't tell my wife...)!

homebrewer_99 said:

I never got into 8 track because they split the songs (sometimes).

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That SUCKED!!!! You're in the middle of a song, friggin rock out like hell, and then silence while having to whait as the channel changes. They were easy to get to songs fast than cassettes, but still sucked!

You're not hearing any argument from me!

Tony said:

That SUCKED!!!! You're in the middle of a song, friggin rock out like hell, and then silence while having to whait as the channel changes. They were easy to get to songs fast than cassettes, but still sucked!

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Back when your choices were LP's or nose pick country on the radio, 8 tracks were pretty dad gum cool.