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Old 05-30-2008, 04:43 AM   #1
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Default Some interesting results

So i have 4 beers that have been ready to transfer for a week now, i went ahead and let them go, because 2 of them were still fermenting and the other 2 were lagers so i doubted they were done. Today i decided to taste and transfer to secondary.

First up was Ed's Haus Pale Ale. For starters it looked like Orange Soda, i'm not kidding, it looked nothing like beer. Taste test yielded a WOAH, to the raw hop bite that tends to mellow out. But it was good a little dry, and the reason for it being so dry, It somehow finished at 1.005-ish. I used Ale yeast from Boscos, it was 1056 that they used on 1 batch. I've NEVER had a beer go this low before. I also did a step mash so i probably increased fermentability some too.

Next was a dry stout. It tasted like water and roasted barley and stopped at 1.020, i agitated it a bit to see if maybe it was stuck. I thought maybe the flaked barley left some unfermentables in it, but that much? Anyone of thoughts on that???

Third, was my first lager (well second brewed, but they were the same day) a bock. Tasted great, far better than any bock i've had, and it's green and flat, can't wait to lager it and bottle. It hit it's grav, i'll do a final at bottling time.

Fourth was an Oktoberfest that i brewed with the bock. I was going to do a Diacetyl rest on the two lagers but i started a new job and sleep took priority, i figured they'd be ok. Well, i've NEVER tasted a beer that tases like Butterscotch pudding, it's got a HIGH level of Diacetyl, and it hit its final OG too. I want to fix this problem because the aftertaste i got was so good. Anyone know a way to fix this after fermentation?

I've got both lagers warming up to room temp hoping that if they aren't done i'll get some kind of D rest. Going to check in a week on the O-fest.

So questions:
1 Why do you guys think the Pale fermented so far? (this one is out of curiosity it's not that important)
2 Why do you think the Stout (using the same yeast) stopped so short?
3 How do I fix Diacetyl after 99.99% of fermentation is done?

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Old 05-30-2008, 05:33 AM   #2
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Next was a dry stout. It tasted like water and roasted barley and stopped at 1.020, i agitated it a bit to see if maybe it was stuck. I thought maybe the flaked barley left some unfermentables in it, but that much? Anyone of thoughts on that???

2 Why do you think the Stout (using the same yeast) stopped so short?
Not so sure about questions 1 and 3, but 1.020 is about where a dry stout should be with, oh, about three pounds of flaked and roasted barley in a 10-pound grainbill. If you've added that much, you're probably just fine. My last batch of stout had a total of 5 1/2 pounds of flaked and roast barley, in a 12-pound grainbill, and I actually had to leave it to lauter overnight! Thank God I did a mashout to stop the enzyme action or who knows what I would've ended up with. What I got was this thick, scrumptious brew that measured at 1.030 ... down from 1.061. Actually, the slow lauter was a pain in the butt but it's the best tasting beer I've made to date and I'll probably be doing it again soon, and kegging the result. (I may try throwing rice hulls in, if I can find them). I'm thinking about calling it "Bloody Mary Stout," since it makes such a great breakfast drink. Just kidding!

My recipe is 5.5 pounds 2-row base (I used pilsner malt), 4 pounds flaked barley, 1.5 pounds roast barley and 1 pound Crystal 10; 60 minutes at 156 and 10 minutes at 170; 2 oz. Fuggles/Willamettes :60; and WLP-002. Also, unsoftened well water (basic valley-floor wellwater) for both brewing and sparging.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:55 PM   #3
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Yeah i figured it's stay rather high, mine was 2 row (don't have recipe, at work), 3 lbs of Flaked Barley, and 1.5 lbs of Roasted Barley (maybe more). I don't remember the hops lol.

The recipe was for a 1.044 OG (which is good according to BJCP), so i'm calculating like a 3.5% ABV which is a little low but i guess that means i'll be drinking more of it lol. For a dry stout though the OG should be lower but then i'd lose the future mouthfeel the flaked is going to give me. Oh well i'll deal with it, it'll be good.

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Old 05-30-2008, 06:01 PM   #4
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  1. We need more details. There's any number of culprits. If you mashed really low and/or step-mashed in the 140's, you can easily end up with a really dry beer. Also, was it the EWHPA recipe to a T? I don't know what "BOSCOS" is, either.
  2. If you added a bunch of flaked barley, you'll end up with a high fg. That's okay, though, I have a "dry" english stout that finished in the upper teens and it still comes across as a dry stout. Wow, now I see...3 lbs? Holy god, yeah, no wonder if finished that high. 3 lbs is a LOT!
  3. After fermentation's done, all you can really do is hope. I've never had problems with diacetyl, personally, and I always do a D-rest, but I've heard of people who had diacetyl problems that ended up dissipating with extended bottle aging.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:07 PM   #5
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  1. We need more details. There's any number of culprits. If you mashed really low and/or step-mashed in the 140's, you can easily end up with a really dry beer. Also, was it the EWHPA recipe to a T? I don't know what "BOSCOS" is, either.
  2. If you added a bunch of flaked barley, you'll end up with a high fg. That's okay, though, I have a "dry" english stout that finished in the upper teens and it still comes across as a dry stout. Wow, now I see...3 lbs? Holy god, yeah, no wonder if finished that high. 3 lbs is a LOT!
  3. After fermentation's done, all you can really do is hope. I've never had problems with diacetyl, personally, and I always do a D-rest, but I've heard of people who had diacetyl problems that ended up dissipating with extended bottle aging.

1. a rest at 133 and a sac rest at 152, Boscos is the local brewpub got free yeast from them. it was EWHPA to a T except the first hop addition got a bit more time because i ran out of propane just as i added them, I did use Saccromyces pill and yeast nutrient, so.
3. Yeah, i'm gonna go ahead and transfer them to secondary and lager them this weekend, i figure there's nothing i can do now so... deal with it, i like butterscotch anyway, lol.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:17 PM   #6
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what's saccromyces?

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.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:27 PM   #7
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I have not done a Lager, but I know a D-rest is supposed to get the yeast to keep working and clean up after themselves right? Why wouldn't it work to go ahead and warm that up to the 70's and see if they do clean up?

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Old 05-30-2008, 11:55 PM   #8
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what's saccromyces?
Saccharomyces is a genus in the kingdom of fungi that includes many species of yeast. Saccharomyces is from Latin meaning sugar fungi. Many members of this genus are considered very important in food production. One example is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is used in making wine, bread, and beer. Other members of this genus include Saccharomyces bayanus, used in making wine, and Saccharomyces boulardii, used in medicine.

[It's that little fungi you put in the beer to make it ferment ]
End Sarcasm


Sorry i spelled it wrong the first time. And i meant Servomyces.
It was one of the little pills that White Labs put out to increase the yeast effectiveness in beers. (Basically yeast nutrient)

Quote:
Servomyces is a nutritional yeast supplement (GMO free) that was originally developed for German brewers by Weihenstephan and the Munich University. It conforms to the restrictions of Reinheitsgebot. Servomyces enables any yeast strain's ability to incorporate essential nutrients into its cellular structure. Tested in breweries around the world, it has been proven to:

* Cut down fermentation time
* Increase flocculation
* Greatly reduce harsh sulfur notes
* Improve the health and viability of yeast
* Reduce levels of diacetyl at the end of primary fermentation
* Produce faster, more complete attenuations
* Increase yeast production for a better harvest
* Improve the quality of the finished product
Odd i put one in the Oktoberfest and it still tastes of diacetyl, lol.

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I have not done a Lager, but I know a D-rest is supposed to get the yeast to keep working and clean up after themselves right? Why wouldn't it work to go ahead and warm that up to the 70's and see if they do clean up?
That's what i'm thinking too. Unless they already went dormant, but i'm still hearing bubbles from the blow off so i'm letting it go for a while longer. And i don't see why they wouldn't go ahead and clean up after themselves at bottleing.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:26 AM   #9
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I think you can get rid of the diacetyl by pitching a little bit of sugar to wake the yeast up and letting it go about 72 hours at 65-75 degrees. (If that's bull, somebody chime in -- I need to know!)

With three pounds of flake and a pound and a half of roast, you've got a whopping four and a half pounds of unhusked, unmalted grain! Wow, that must've been fun to lauter. 1.020 is very dry for that much unfermentable long-chain sugar content, even though you mashed it at pretty low temps. Still -- I bet it's scrumptious. How much base malt did you use? For a 1.041 wort, it couldn't've been much ... maybe six pounds? Yikes. Yum.

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Old 05-31-2008, 06:01 AM   #10
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I think you can get rid of the diacetyl by pitching a little bit of sugar to wake the yeast up and letting it go about 72 hours at 65-75 degrees. (If that's bull, somebody chime in -- I need to know!)

With three pounds of flake and a pound and a half of roast, you've got a whopping four and a half pounds of unhusked, unmalted grain! Wow, that must've been fun to lauter. 1.020 is very dry for that much unfermentable long-chain sugar content, even though you mashed it at pretty low temps. Still -- I bet it's scrumptious. How much base malt did you use? For a 1.041 wort, it couldn't've been much ... maybe six pounds? Yikes. Yum.
Square on the head. lol... and it was 1.044 lol. didn't have any problems lautering amazingly probably because i did a protein rest before and that kept it from creating those annoying little flaked barley clumps. i didn't mash that low for the stout i think i was at 153 or 154 maybe a little higher i don't recall exactly. (yes i know bad me)

And a correction it was 1 lb not 1.5lbs of Roasted Barley. I think i used Amarillo .5 oz and EKG 1.25oz at 60. Its also 6 gallons.



Oh and the Oktoberfest seems to be still fermenting, i took it out of the fridge yesterday and every minute or so i get a loud bubble from the bucket o liquid for the blowoff, so hopefully it's correcting itself while it finishes up. Taken them in and out of the fridge is a bitch because they're on their side, then they get flipped up once they're out so both probably got roused pretty well.
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