Secondary/Tertiary Questions

BeerPirate · 05-16-2007, 03:41 PM

Hey everyone,

I've got a not-so-quick question regarding an Amarillo Pale Ale/IPA I have in a secondary. I brewed it with:

9lbs of extra light LME

I steeped
1lb of 15L Crystal
1/2lb of CaraVienne
4oz. of 2 row

9.5Alpha Amarillo hop pellets
60 min 1.5oz
30 1oz
15 1oz
5 .5oz
2 1oz

I chilled to pitching temps in about 15 minutes using a counterflow chiller and then airated using a high capacity aquarium pump through a filter and a 2 micron stainless diffusion stone for 20 minutes. I pitched a properly rehydrated pack of Safale US-05 and then airated again for 20 minutes. My fermentation was fantastic, krausen was coming out of the airlock of my 6.5 gallon carboy in about 24 hours and then subsided in about 5 days. I waited until 10 days passed and then racked the beer into a secondary with 2 more oz. of the Amarillo pellets. It tasted great at the time of transfer and everything seemed to be fine.

Now, my problem is that the beer is not clearing at all. It has been in the secondary for 2 weeks as of today. The bubbler isn't doing much at all but I can see constant movement of hop particulate. The bulk of the hops have settled to the bottom but there is a persistant cap of hops that remains on the top. If I swirl the carboy gently they fall and I have nothing but beer on the surface but very soon they're back on the top. Also, the beer appears to be very cloudy and hasn't cleared much at all. I hesitate to think that the beer isn't done fermenting because I detected no residual sweetness when I sampled at racking and my fermentation was very active. I don't have hydrometer readings to back this up though.

One of my major concerns in this matter is that I don't want to leave the beer on the hops much longer. This beer was an experiment to test the different characteristics of Amarillo as I haven't used it much before. I'm afraid if I leave the beer on the hops I may start to get some "green" character from them that I would like to avoid.

My second concern is I have an event on June 7th that I need to have the beer ready by. I am going to keg the beer and I would like to leave it on CO2 for almost two weeks to ensure proper carbonation. I am concerned that if I keg it now (to get it off the hops) I will end up with too much sediment in my keg (not enough to clog a poppet, but enough to spoil the appearance, my meeting is with other brewers afterall so appearance is important).

So far I have came up with a couple different possible solutions. Please let me know what you think of them.

1. Rack to a tertiary to get the beer off of the hops. This could be a problem as it would only be able to sit in the tertiary for about a week before I need to keg it. Another downside would be a slight loss of yield.

2. Keg it now and deal with the sediment.

3. Put the secondary in the serving fridge for a day to possible crash cool the sediment out before I keg it. I'm leaning towards this because I won't loose any yield.

4. Go to a tertiary AND crash cool after a week.

Sorry for the long drawn out post, I know no matter what I do here it's going to taste great, I just wanted to see what some of the other brewers would suggest.

One more thing, has anyone else noticed a flocculation issue with US-05? I did a red before this batch and it took quite a while before it cleared as well.

Thanks,
BeerPirate

Desert_Sky · 05-16-2007, 03:50 PM

so you are worried about the hops on the top?

yea that happens. Im not really concerned myself if I pour a glass of beer that has a piece or two of hops left in it. But if you really want it clear and are not worried about oxidation, then tertiary and crash it. That will clear it up really well.

beeraggie · 05-16-2007, 03:53 PM

Crash cooling works great!!!
I usually X-fer to a secondary, wait about 10 days, crash cool for 48hrs and Keg.

ohiobrewtus · 05-16-2007, 04:05 PM

The Double IPA that I bottled about two weeks ago did the same thing. I did all pellet hop additions and dryhopped with 2 oz. of Hallertau. I constantly had what seemed like a 1/2 inch hop layer on the top while it was in seconary. I'd rock it around a bit and some of it would settle, but within an hour or so it was all right back on the top. I also was a bit concerned about how it would effect the finished product.

When I racked from secondary to my bottling bucket I tied 2 muslin bags to the end of the siphon to filter some of it out. I ended up having to tap the end of the auto siphon on the side of the carboy once about every 10 seconds to free some of the hop residue but after 30 min or so it finally all transferred.

It was pretty clear in the bottling bucket, but it still had a bit more trub than I wanted so I put another muslin bag on the and of the auto siphon when I bottled. It still needs another few weeks in bottles to finish, but I've sampled a couple along the way and it's a mighty fine brew that ended up being surprisingly clear.

Don't worry, it will probably end up just fine.

**TheJadedDog** · 05-16-2007, 05:43 PM

You do have a lot of hops in there, personally I would try to crash cool it in the vessel it is in rather than racking it again.

FlyGuy · 05-16-2007, 06:14 PM

I also say crash cool the secondary, use a filter on your siphon and get it all in the keg, and let it carb up slowly for a week (to let things settle a bit more, if necessary). You could also add some gelatin to the keg when you rack it if you are really worried about it clearing (but I bet it won't be necessary).

BeerPirate · 05-23-2007, 03:24 PM

I did crash cool it in the serving fridge for 4 days, It worked awesome. It compacted really well and I kegged it last night, it tasted amazing, I've done about 30 batches and this one is by far the best. It's going to be on pressure for 2.5 weeks and then I'm going to be worthless.

Another question here. I just brewed another pale last night.

I cleared out some extra ingredients I had laying around.

6.5lbs of pale LME

.2lbs 120L crystal
.25lbs 40L crystal
.2lbs 2 Row Pale
.5lbs CaraVienne

1oz. Norther Brewer 30min
.85oz. Perle 10min
1oz. Amarillo 1min

SafAle US-05

I used a hop bag to contain the mess. I aerated and pitched a well hydrated yeast.

My question is would you secondary this beer? I'm thinking I'll let it ferment and then crash cool in the primary and then keg it. I cashed two kegs last night that were both almost empty and now I'm out of beer. I just wanted to know if I crash cool in the Primary can I expect the same amount of settleing.

Also, what do you think of the recipe, I literally just looked around and found some leftovers.

**FlyingHorse** · 05-23-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerPirate

My question is would you secondary this beer? I'm thinking I'll let it ferment and then crash cool in the primary and then keg it. I cashed two kegs last night that were both almost empty and now I'm out of beer. I just wanted to know if I crash cool in the Primary can I expect the same amount of settleing.

From the Wiki:

The term "secondary fermentation" is a bit of a misnomer, however. Very little actual fermentation is occurring during this period. It is mainly for clearing and conditioning; this period allows solids and yeast to settle out (resulting in clearer beer) and for volatile compounds to mellow out, while the flavors meld and evolve. For most ales, this period is 2-3 weeks.

The settling and mellowing can occur in your primary, in a "secondary" (bright tank), or in your keg. I think (?) the mellowing of the volatiles goes a little better at warmer temps, so you may want to leave the beer in primary for longer than usual before crash cooling. 2 weeks in primary, crash cool for 48 hours, keg should be OK (though it will still require some more time in the keg to "ripen".

I took a recent batch of ordinary bitter from brew to tap in 5 days. Prolly don't want to go that fast (it was drinkable, but definitely better after a couple more weeks in keg) but your basic idea of primary --> keg is fine.

FlyGuy · 05-23-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bike N Brew

The settling and mellowing can occur in your primary, in a "secondary" (bright tank), or in your keg. I think (?) the mellowing of the volatiles goes a little better at warmer temps, so you may want to leave the beer in primary for longer than usual before crash cooling. 2 weeks in primary, crash cool for 48 hours, keg should be OK (though it will still require some more time in the keg to "ripen".

I second this advice. Ferment in the primary for two weeks, and put it in the keg for a couple weeks. Once it is cool, the yeast should all settle out, and you can remove it on your first glass or so from the keg. Works like a charm.

I have started doing this for my pale ales now, and it is sure easier. A SS tea-ball works really well for dry-hopping the keg too.