Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > PM Brewing, How Simple is it Really?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-30-2009, 08:20 PM   #1
SkewedBrewing
Hopscallion
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SkewedBrewing's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 1,047
Likes Given: 1

Default PM Brewing, How Simple is it Really?

Ok, So I've been doing extract with specialty grains for my entire brewing career. When I originally started brewing my LHBS had bulk DME so I would just bring a reusable container and he'd fill it for me, depending on what I needed, usually around 7 lbs for a decently high ABV (I was in college). This made buying extract one, easy (only one, reusable container) and two, cheap because he had it in bulk and would just measure it out (Not to mention the fact that its been three or four years so prices have changed).

Now, here in Chicago, my LBHS doesn't have any bulk extract and buying 2 3.3# can's of Liquid extract or two pouches of 3# Dry Extract is neither simple nor cheap.

After reading DeathBrewer's awesome posts on stovetop AG and PM (thanks, BTW) I want to, at the very least, move to PM. I live in an apartment and it makes sense to make a better brew (and its a little, a little), better on my wallet).

What I want to be able to do is buy a can or a pouch with 3-3.3# of extract for some solid fermentables and have the remaining fermentables be left to the grains.

If I understand correctly, I need two brew kettles. One can be 3-4 gallons and the other has to be at least 5 or 6. I mash my grains in the larger pot at 155 and heat my remaining sparge water in the other to 170. (I should mash with about 2 gallons and sparge with another 2.) I mash for 30-60 minutes and then drain. Then I pour the sparge water over the grains into the larger pot. This should leave me with a 3 gallon boil?

After the mash is complete i treat it like a regular wort and the extract, hops, etc.

My questions are, how much grain should I use to supplement the extra 3# of extract I would normally have and is this all you really have to do to start doing a PM?

Is this how other people do it? I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through this post and taking the time to help me out.

Another thing:
Just for my own clarification, a simple PM IPA might look like this (I just made this up...):

3.3 lbs. Munton Liquid Extract
4 lbs. English 2-row Pale
1/2 lb. Crystal 60L
1 oz. Kent Goldings
1 oz. Willamette
Safale 04

Etc...

__________________
"All other nations are drinking Ray Charles beer and we are drinking Barry Manilow."

Reusable Pry-Off Bottles Wiki
SkewedBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 09:00 PM   #2
ArcaneXor
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,399
Liked 74 Times on 70 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkewedAle View Post
If I understand correctly, I need two brew kettles. One can be 3-4 gallons and the other has to be at least 5 or 6.
You just need one. I heat up my mash water in it and add to to my 2-gallon rubbermaid mashtun. You can then heat up the sparge water in the same pot. Collect the wort in a bucket and pour it back into the kettle once you are done sparging. Proceed as if you are doing an extract batch.
If you want to mash more than about 4 lbs of grain per batch, a larger (3 or 5-gal) mash tun is advisable.

The whole process is easy. There is plenty of software and online brewing calculators to tell you the temperatures you need to hit and how much grain to substitute for the extract.
__________________
The Fiesty(sic) Goat Brewery est. 2007 & Clusterfuggle Experimental Ales est. 2009
Primary: Saison, Berliner Weisse, sLambic I, sLambic II, IPA, 70/-
Secondary: Orange Blossom Mead, Flanders Red I
Kegged: Fat Man Porter w/ 1469, Fat Man Porter w/ 005, Centennial Falcon w/ Conan, Centennial Falcon w/ Denny's, Barrel-aged Fat Man Porter, Belgian Dark Strong, Dark Mild

Last edited by ArcaneXor; 01-30-2009 at 09:02 PM.
ArcaneXor is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 09:08 PM   #3
DeathBrewer
Maniacally Malty
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeathBrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,825
Liked 204 Times on 113 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkewedAle View Post
If I understand correctly, I need two brew kettles. One can be 3-4 gallons and the other has to be at least 5 or 6. I mash my grains in the larger pot at 155 and heat my remaining sparge water in the other to 170. (I should mash with about 2 gallons and sparge with another 2.) I mash for 30-60 minutes and then drain. Then I pour the sparge water over the grains into the larger pot. This should leave me with a 3 gallon boil?
Close. If you are using my tea-bag method, you do not want to pour the sparge water over the grains. Mash in your 3-4 gallon pot and heat up the sparge water in your 5 gallon. After you mash, just drain the bag for a few moments and then transfer the bag to the 5 gallon sparge water for 10 minutes.

You want your sparge MASH to be at 170°F, so this would involve heating the water closer to 180°F.

If you let the bag drain properly you will probably have closer to 3.5 gallons pre-boil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkewedAle View Post
After the mash is complete i treat it like a regular wort and the extract, hops, etc.

My questions are, how much grain should I use to supplement the extra 3# of extract I would normally have and is this all you really have to do to start doing a PM?

Is this how other people do it? I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through this post and taking the time to help me out.

Another thing:
Just for my own clarification, a simple PM IPA might look like this (I just made this up...):

3.3 lbs. Munton Liquid Extract
4 lbs. English 2-row Pale
1/2 lb. Crystal 60L
1 oz. Kent Goldings
1 oz. Willamette
Safale 04

Etc...

Off the top of my head, my dunkelweizen recipe uses 5 lbs of grain and 3 lbs of DME, coming to about 1.048. Your recipe would be lighter than this.
__________________
Easy Partial Mash Brewing - Stovetop All-Grain Brewing

"Death is always with us." - Brewpastor

Quote:
DIAICYLF
We will remember...
DeathBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 09:12 PM   #4
SkewedBrewing
Hopscallion
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SkewedBrewing's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 1,047
Likes Given: 1

Default

Cool, thanks.

So I would just dunk the grains again in the second kettle to sparge and thats that?

__________________
"All other nations are drinking Ray Charles beer and we are drinking Barry Manilow."

Reusable Pry-Off Bottles Wiki
SkewedBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2009, 11:51 PM   #5
ifishsum
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 1,457
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Pretty much, I let them soak in the second kettle for 5 minutes or so, then tea-bag and drain.

You don't need 2 pots, I use a 2 gallon round drink cooler for the mash and then sparge directly in the boil kettle. The large grain bag fits in the cooler nicely, and it holds temperature for an hour with no problem at all, especially if pre-heated - and I don't need the oven.

The trickiest thing (at least the first time) is hitting your strike water temp so that when combined with the grains it drops down to your proper mash temperature. With the cooler setup and 4-5 lbs of grain I usually heat my strike water to 166 to hit a mash temp of 152-153.

DB's PM method is good, and it's really not much harder than steeping grains. You just have to pay more attention to water/grain ratio and mashing temperature.

__________________
"If you're gonna be an ape, be a hairy one" - Spyder

Primary 2: Edwort's Robust Porter
Secondary 1: LW Pale Ale
Secondary 1: Blackened Soul RIS
Kegged: Dead Guy Ale
Kegged: Rye Pale Ale
Kegged: Haus Pale Ale
Kegged: Nut Brown Ale
Kegged: Afrikan Amber
Kegged: Jock Scott Ale
Kegged: Afrikan Amber

Last edited by ifishsum; 01-30-2009 at 11:55 PM.
ifishsum is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2009, 12:03 AM   #6
SkewedBrewing
Hopscallion
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SkewedBrewing's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 1,047
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifishsum View Post
Pretty much, I let them soak in the second kettle for 5 minutes or so, then tea-bag and drain.

You don't need 2 pots, I use a 2 gallon round drink cooler for the mash and then sparge directly in the boil kettle. The large grain bag fits in the cooler nicely, and it holds temperature for an hour with no problem at all, especially if pre-heated - and I don't need the oven.

The trickiest thing (at least the first time) is hitting your strike water temp so that when combined with the grains it drops down to your proper mash temperature. With the cooler setup and 4-5 lbs of grain I usually heat my strike water to 166 to hit a mash temp of 152-153.

DB's PM method is good, and it's really not much harder than steeping grains. You just have to pay more attention to water/grain ratio and mashing temperature.
Thanks, I'll try this way on my next batch. You'd think that after three years of on and off brewing I'd have moved on from Extract. Can't wait to move on to the partial mash...
__________________
"All other nations are drinking Ray Charles beer and we are drinking Barry Manilow."

Reusable Pry-Off Bottles Wiki
SkewedBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2009, 12:55 AM   #7
DeathBrewer
Maniacally Malty
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeathBrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,825
Liked 204 Times on 113 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifishsum View Post
You don't need 2 pots, I use a 2 gallon round drink cooler for the mash and then sparge directly in the boil kettle. The large grain bag fits in the cooler nicely, and it holds temperature for an hour with no problem at all, especially if pre-heated - and I don't need the oven.
You definitely need two VESSELS. Whether you use a pot or a cooler is up to you. There are certain advantages to each.
__________________
Easy Partial Mash Brewing - Stovetop All-Grain Brewing

"Death is always with us." - Brewpastor

Quote:
DIAICYLF
We will remember...
DeathBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Say it isnt so! AG Brewing really THAT simple? JoeMama All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 01-08-2009 10:32 PM
Simple Ale PhoenixCoyote Recipes/Ingredients 5 04-02-2008 03:19 AM
Moving, but not necessarily graduating, from Mr. Beer to a simple brewing kit ghostofdavid Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 01-15-2008 08:22 PM
Simple Poll - How Important is a Hydrometer to Your Brewing? BierMuncher Equipment/Sanitation 33 11-06-2007 05:32 PM
All Grain brewing is simple AleHole Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 11 03-01-2007 01:23 AM