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Old 10-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #1
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Default Please help a beginning No Chill brewer with his process...

I would appreciate any insight experienced no-chillers could give me. I think I need to troubleshoot my process because I believe I have DMS. I embarked on my first no chill brew on Sunday night. Here are the steps I used:

1. I BIAB so I began by heating my mash water and mashing according to the recipe for 60 minutes.
2. After the mash was done, I sparged with 170F water to bring myself up to 4 gallons (the most I can boil.)
3. I brought the wort up to a boil, removed it from the heat and added extract (partial mash)
4. I returned the wort to a boil and proceeded for 90 minutes.
5. While the boil was going on, I sanitized a corny keg to use for the no chill.
6. After the boil was done, I topped off with boiling water to reach 5 gallons.
7. I started a whirlpool and began a siphon into my keg.
8. Once the wort was transferred, I sealed up the keg and pressurized with 10psi.
9. The wort took about 30 hours to reach ambient temps in my basement.
10. I was curious, so I released the pressure release valve on the keg so I could get a smell. Instant cooked veggie smell.

I’m a bit disappointed because I read over and over that DMS isn’t an issue from brewers who no chill. I researched it a ton and thought I was following best practices. Maybe I’m missing something. I’m leaning towards the following:

1. My boil was not vigorous enough get rid of the DMS creating compounds. My boil looks exactly like this:

2. I’m overreacting and the beer will be fine once I start fermenting.
3. I’m missing something completely different.

Here are my questions:
Can you spot anything wrong with my process? If so, what am I missing?
Would you still ferment with this wort or should I toss it?
Will the veggie smell character go away during fermentation?

Thanks all for your help.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #2
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Glad I watched the video. If the wort is at 200F, it's not boiling, as water boils at 212, a little higher with a bunch of sugars & proteins dissolved in it. Your temp should be in the 212-215 range while you boil. I'm not sure why you turned the heat down. That having been said, fermenting beer gives off some nasty smells, which vary by recipe and yeast strain. I'd let your beer do its thing for another couple of weeks. It will, in all probability, be just fine.

As an aside, if you're doing partial mash, you don't need to boil your extract for 90 minutes; 15 is fine. All the DMS precursors have been cooked off already, so save some electricity and get better hop utilization. Unless you're mashing with pils malt, a 90 minute boil is unnecessary. I usually boil for half that.

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Old 10-04-2012, 05:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwood-kid View Post
I'm not sure why you turned the heat down.
Thanks for the response. I didn't turn the heat down. Just removed it from the heat when I added the extract. Once it was dissolved, I returned it to the heat and brought it back up to a boil on High. It remained there till the end of the boil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwood-kid View Post
That having been said, fermenting beer gives off some nasty smells, which vary by recipe and yeast strain.
I'm not fermenting it yet. It's still in the no chill vessel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwood-kid View Post
As an aside, if you're doing partial mash, you don't need to boil your extract for 90 minutes; 15 is fine. All the DMS precursors have been cooked off already, so save some electricity and get better hop utilization. Unless you're mashing with pils malt, a 90 minute boil is unnecessary. I usually boil for half that.
Thanks for the advice on the extract. As for the rest, however, I've read over and over than if you are no chilling, a 90 minute boil is imperative. Most likely 120 for pilsner malts. As for hop utilization, I adjusted the entry times to make up for the long boil.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:10 PM   #4
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That boil looks fine to me. You want a "rolling boil" the entire time if possible, so if you see the water turning-over, "rolling" then you're fine. Let it age, check it again. Co2 drives off DMS as well, so when you pulled the relief valve you were getting a shot of DMS that had come out of solution.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:38 PM   #5
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At the 25-second mark on the video, you said you took a temp reading, that it was over 200--which was too hot--and would turn it down. Your wort will never get too hot until it's the consistency of pancake syrup, because it can't get much over whatever boiling temps for water are at your given elevation. It can boil more or less vigourously, and more is better if you're intent on driving off DMS. As far as hop utilization, lower-gravity worts give you more IBUs than higher-gravity worts. Meaning, if you add the extract towrds the end, you won't need nearly as many bittering hops to accomplish the same goal.

Extract brewing works great for no chill. Don't top off with water; top off with a bag of ice from the store. As long as the bag is intact, there's almost zero chance of infection. A 10lb bag of ice is 1.25 gallons, probably about what you'll need to bring the beer to 5 gallons, and it will drop your temp very quickly. If you want, you can place your brewpot in a bathtub full of water for 20 minutes or so before you add the ice. All this may not get you exactly to pitching temps, but for about 2 bucks, it'll speed things along considerably. Putting it in a pressurized keg when hot is probably not the best thing; the DMS that does form will have no place to go when it evaporates but back into the beer.

I still think your beer will turn out fine once you get it fermenting. I think unfermented wort is one of the nastiest-tasting things I've ever had. It's amazing what giving the yeast a couple of weeks to work their magic will do.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #6
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Kingswood- Sorry I should have been more clear. That's not my video. I just tried to find one that looked like my boil.

While your suggestions make sense, I'm trying to work out the kinks in No Chill brewing. If you're not familiar, check this out:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/ind...o_Chill_Method

I used to use ice and all that, but I'm trying out No Chill because it's advantages are alluring and preferable to me.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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If I am understanding what you are saying, you make your brew and then keg it and let it sit until it cools down?

While the beer is cooling the steam is letting off DMS which is why you shouldn't fully cover the beer while it is cooling or else it will trap the DMS steam and it will stay in the wort. Also, like others said fully boiling helps this too.

I would probably guess the DMS smell is coming from not letting the steam escape while chillling.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper5000 View Post
If I am understanding what you are saying, you make your brew and then keg it and let it sit until it cools down?

While the beer is cooling the steam is letting off DMS which is why you shouldn't fully cover the beer while it is cooling or else it will trap the DMS steam and it will stay in the wort. Also, like others said fully boiling helps this too.

I would probably guess the DMS smell is coming from not letting the steam escape while chillling.
Please refer to no chill documentation.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:04 PM   #9
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Right I understand this, but sealing the keg would still trap the stem and cause the DMS problem...

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:07 PM   #10
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DMS can have a vegetable or cooked corn/veggie taste/aroma.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/DMS

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