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Old 01-19-2012, 07:54 AM   #11
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You can do any two beers that use the same base malt. Just add any crystal separately
So if I wanted to do a barleywine I would have to do two mashes for the big beer? I thought that was contradictory to the process, I thought parti-gyle was one mash/two beers?

I was thinking that maybe the second runnings after sparging might be thin enough to dilute the color, but was unsure and hoping that someone here could confirm...
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:56 AM   #12
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So if I wanted to do a barleywine I would have to do two mashes for the big beer? I thought that was contradictory to the process, I thought parti-gyle was one mash/two beers?

I was thinking that maybe the second runnings after sparging might be thin enough to dilute the color, but was unsure and hoping that someone here could confirm...
Nope, not two mashes. It's called capping. You just drain the first beer, then add crystal/roasted malts and wait a bit, and then drain the second beer. Crystal/roasted only needs to steep for ~20 minutes. If you need steeping grains for the first but not the second beer, you can steep it in water and add it separately to the boil. Actually, if you're using any dark malts that's good practice anyways, since you can add them at the end of the boil to reduce astringency. There is only one restriction to partigyle and that is that you can't make two beers with different base malts, which means you can't use a pound of munich in one beer but not the other...unless you wanted to do a second mini-mash, which you could do. It's not as complicated as you think, it's actually the only way I brew now.

Also, I would avoid making a beer from entirely the second runnings, as I've heard that the flavor is inferior. I always do a 1/3-2/3 split, which results in a bit of the first runnings going into the second beer. Here's a handy chart: BT - Parti-Gyle Brewing [table]
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by HollisBT
I was thinking that maybe the second runnings after sparging might be thin enough to dilute the color, but was unsure and hoping that someone here could confirm...
I'm more of a session beer guy and don't normally want 5 gallons of a big beer. This method allows me to make around two gallons of a big beer and 5 gallons of something with a lower gravity using one mash in my 10 gallon cooler.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:42 AM   #14
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Nope, not two mashes. It's called capping. You just drain the first beer, then add crystal/roasted malts and wait a bit, and then drain the second beer. Crystal/roasted only needs to steep for ~20 minutes. If you need steeping grains for the first but not the second beer, you can steep it in water and add it separately to the boil. Actually, if you're using any dark malts that's good practice anyways, since you can add them at the end of the boil to reduce astringency. There is only one restriction to partigyle and that is that you can't make two beers with different base malts, which means you can't use a pound of munich in one beer but not the other...unless you wanted to do a second mini-mash, which you could do. It's not as complicated as you think, it's actually the only way I brew now.

Also, I would avoid making a beer from entirely the second runnings, as I've heard that the flavor is inferior. I always do a 1/3-2/3 split, which results in a bit of the first runnings going into the second beer. Here's a handy chart: BT - Parti-Gyle Brewing [table]
I notice that you do partigyle brews exclusively these days. I was wondering if you could help a new comer to the practice formulate a recipe. I have the basics tenants down, I just get confused on the grain bill.

My plan is to brew a 1.100 barleywine and a 1.050 ESB from a SMaSH grain bed of maris otter. If my reckoning is correct, I need 15# of grain to get these gravities (referring to the Mosher table). My main question is: do I have to double this grain bill (to 30#) to ensure appropriate OGs? If yes, I fail to see how this is an economical method of brewing. My logic on the practice was to use only the first runnings of a 5 gallon grain bed (in this case, 15# MO) for the big beer, and then remash or sparge to get the small beer.

Using that method, I come up with on 4.7 gallons of pre boil volume for the big beer (mashing thin), so I would never get up to 5 gallons for that brew.

Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #15
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I think what you might be missing is that for 15 lbs of grain you will never get 5 gallons of barleywine AND 5 gallons of ESB. It is more likely that you could get 2.5 gallons of BW and 5 gallons of ESB. I don't know if you are familiar with the gravity points system but It goes something like this. For every pound of grain(base) you can expect to get so many points based on your efficiency. Lets say you get 25 points for every pound mashed. Times that by 15 and you get 625. You have 625 gravity points to play with. You could do 10 gallons of a 1.0625 beer. For an BW/ESB split you might do 2.5 gallons at 1.100 for your barleywine . You then have 375 gravity points to play with for you ESB. Roughly you get 6.5 gallons at about 1.054. Of course you can blend the worts to get whatever SG you are looking for.

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Old 01-20-2012, 03:55 AM   #16
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I notice that you do partigyle brews exclusively these days. I was wondering if you could help a new comer to the practice formulate a recipe. I have the basics tenants down, I just get confused on the grain bill.

My plan is to brew a 1.100 barleywine and a 1.050 ESB from a SMaSH grain bed of maris otter. If my reckoning is correct, I need 15# of grain to get these gravities (referring to the Mosher table). My main question is: do I have to double this grain bill (to 30#) to ensure appropriate OGs? If yes, I fail to see how this is an economical method of brewing. My logic on the practice was to use only the first runnings of a 5 gallon grain bed (in this case, 15# MO) for the big beer, and then remash or sparge to get the small beer.

Using that method, I come up with on 4.7 gallons of pre boil volume for the big beer (mashing thin), so I would never get up to 5 gallons for that brew.

Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Yeah, you do need just around 15# of grain to get that. Double it? I'm not sure I understand. Normally, when you brew a very big beer your efficiency will suffer, but you are not brewing anything different than a 1.060-ish beer, just splitting it. I've never noticed a problem with my gravities. The important thing is to make sure that your final volumes are correct. Also, if you happen to lose a few points on your barleywine OG, you can always add a little sugar to make up for it, or just forget about it since no one will notice the difference anyways.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:08 AM   #17
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Thanks for clearing this up for me. I guess it is just kind of counter intuitive for me. It seems too simple to work, so I try to convince myself that it won't work.

Many thanks for responding. I know answering the same questions can get to be a PITA.

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Old 01-20-2012, 06:19 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rexbanner

Yeah, you do need just around 15# of grain to get that. Double it? I'm not sure I understand. Normally, when you brew a very big beer your efficiency will suffer, but you are not brewing anything different than a 1.060-ish beer, just splitting it. I've never noticed a problem with my gravities. The important thing is to make sure that your final volumes are correct. Also, if you happen to lose a few points on your barleywine OG, you can always add a little sugar to make up for it, or just forget about it since no one will notice the difference anyways.
I understand u say ur brewing a 1.060ish beer but just splitting it. But is the overall grain bill based on say a normal 5 gal batch, or based on a 10 gallon batch if splitting it?

Also say if it's based on a 5 gal batch and a 15lb grain bill. I usually mash in at 1.3qts/lb, so that's 4.875 gal of strike water. After absorption I figure I can run off 2.95 gal. Do I just dilute with water or how do I get the 7 gal preboil vol I need?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:54 PM   #19
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I understand u say ur brewing a 1.060ish beer but just splitting it. But is the overall grain bill based on say a normal 5 gal batch, or based on a 10 gallon batch if splitting it?

Also say if it's based on a 5 gal batch and a 15lb grain bill. I usually mash in at 1.3qts/lb, so that's 4.875 gal of strike water. After absorption I figure I can run off 2.95 gal. Do I just dilute with water or how do I get the 7 gal preboil vol I need?
The grain bill will be based on the total gravity points. In this case you are essentially making 7.5 gallons of a 1.060ish beer. You would need to know your efficiency to calculate how much grain you need. You mash in with your normal amount of strike water. The first runnings, or at least the majority of it, becomes your "big" beer. When you sparge you need to calculate the amount of water needed for your "small" beer. If you want 5 gallons post boil you will need around 6 gallons....but it depends on your system.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:02 PM   #20
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The grain bill will be based on the total gravity points. In this case you are essentially making 7.5 gallons of a 1.060ish beer. You would need to know your efficiency to calculate how much grain you need. You mash in with your normal amount of strike water. The first runnings, or at least the majority of it, becomes your "big" beer. When you sparge you need to calculate the amount of water needed for your "small" beer. If you want 5 gallons post boil you will need around 6 gallons....but it depends on your system.
My eff is a constant 70%.

So I guess my big beer is only 2.95 gal preboil? That is unless I wish to dilute it even more with plain h20?

How would I plan on collecting 7 gal preboil for my big beer? I assume I have to increase my grain bill, but how do I calculate that?

I understand about just sparging for your small beer, and u dont have to account for grain absorption. Right?

Thanks
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