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Old 01-29-2013, 10:42 PM   #21
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Could it be oxidation as a result of your kegging process?

I've been battling a similar off flavor issue w/ my kegged beers, and I'm now looking at oxidation. Doesn't happen when I bottle, only keg. Definitely frustrating....

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 PM   #22
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Good thought. I'm pretty careful when I rack and I flush the keg with co2 before siphoning. Then I purge a bit before cranking the psi. The other thing is I just had a blonde ale on tap that had a crisp clean profile. I have a brown ale on right now that is really tasty. I only encounter the problem when I brew a pale or IPA, which is why I thought it had to be the dry hop in secondary... I don't secondary for anything else.

The only remaining thought is the old hops. I pulled out the centennial today and it smells okay but they are close to 2 years old now. I keep all my hops in vac sealed jars, but those were part of my first bulk purchase and they spent soe time rolled up in the bag in the freezer... I suppose I will brew a batch with only 2012 crop and see if i get a clean flavor. I just hate wasting all these batches... Even if they are 3 gallon size. Hopefully I will figure it out some day so I can enjoy brewing up some hoppy beers.

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagz
Good thought. I'm pretty careful when I rack and I flush the keg with co2 before siphoning. Then I purge a bit before cranking the psi. The other thing is I just had a blonde ale on tap that had a crisp clean profile. I have a brown ale on right now that is really tasty. I only encounter the problem when I brew a pale or IPA, which is why I thought it had to be the dry hop in secondary... I don't secondary for anything else.

The only remaining thought is the old hops. I pulled out the centennial today and it smells okay but they are close to 2 years old now. I keep all my hops in vac sealed jars, but those were part of my first bulk purchase and they spent soe time rolled up in the bag in the freezer... I suppose I will brew a batch with only 2012 crop and see if i get a clean flavor. I just hate wasting all these batches... Even if they are 3 gallon size. Hopefully I will figure it out some day so I can enjoy brewing up some hoppy beers.
I get a stale taste if I carb with high psi. Instead I prime with sugar, just like bottles, then in 2 weeks hook it up to co2 at serving psi.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:21 AM   #24
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Interesting. I've been wanting to do a natural carb in the keg. Maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later. Anyone else experience dulled flavor with force carb?

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Old 01-30-2013, 05:24 AM   #25
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This may be obvious, but describe your keg cleaning, rinsing, sanitizing, filling process in excruciating detail please. My first instinct is not old hops.

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Old 01-30-2013, 04:33 PM   #26
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I clean the kegs with oxyclean right after use. I disassemble the parts and soak them individually as well. Then I rinse everything before storage. When I get it ready for use I soak all the parts individually with starsan and then assemble. I close it up and shake around some sanataizer and then dump. Occasinally ill use co2 to force sanatizer through the lines as well. I fill the keg with co2 and purge a bit while I'm getting set up for racking. Then I rack using an autosiphon into the keg. I seal it up, hit it with co2, and then purge a bit to let any remaining o2 out. I set it to 30 psi for 24 hours and serving pressure after that. I also experimented with doing a long carb at serving temp so I wouldn't look aromatics but that did make a difference in the off flavor.

Other styles turn out great on tap. Pales and IPAs not so much.

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Old 02-01-2013, 01:40 AM   #27
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Drinking one now. The best way to describe it is it tastes like an out of date pale ale. Like I got a sixer at the store only to realize it was brewed 4 months ago. The weird part is that it tastes so good when I first sample it. But now it tastes like all the bright hop flavors are gone and I'm left with the grassy, herbal remnants.

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Old 02-01-2013, 01:52 AM   #28
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What about mash pH ?? Do you know what the alkalinity of your water is??? Have you ever measured your mash pH??

If your darker beers are turning out fine...could be because the darker grains have adequate acidity in the mash to counter your alkalinity resulting in a mash in the right pH range.....but for the lighter beers there isn't enough acidity in the grainbill in the mash to offset the alkalinity resulting in a high pH....and tannin extraction, etc...and off flavors.

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Old 02-01-2013, 02:04 AM   #29
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I had a buddy keep telling me my beers were oxidized till I started making starters or pitching double vials. He has since rescinded his comments. Just a thought.

I almost always notice a weird flavor, almost bitter and acidic at about a week in the keg. It goes away. I feel like carbonic acid would taste like that. Maybe from the fresh force carb? Not sure if it relates to the op's issue at all. Just another thought.

Are you dry hopping with columbus? That's a pretty pungent hop.

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Old 02-01-2013, 02:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgortel View Post
What about mash pH ?? Do you know what the alkalinity of your water is??? Have you ever measured your mash pH??

If your darker beers are turning out fine...could be because the darker grains have adequate acidity in the mash to counter your alkalinity resulting in a mash in the right pH range.....but for the lighter beers there isn't enough acidity in the grainbill in the mash to offset the alkalinity resulting in a high pH....and tannin extraction, etc...and off flavors.
Yeah, I went after mash pH a while back. I was thinking the same thing. Now I use lactic acid and brun water spreadsheet to adjust to about 5.3. Also take readings to confirm.

I did get some astringency when I first started all grain but haven't had a problem in some time. I brew lots of wits and blondes with no problem.
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