Need Some Vocab Help

Allright, I will swallow my pride and ask a bunch of dumb questions. I am new to this so be nice.

I was searching the recipe database for a Belgian Brew and came across a Sorachi Saison I would like to make. Now, all of the ingredients are listed but I am not really sure what to do. I have made two brews allready with malt extracts and this is an all grain, which I can handle. But... How long do I boil the grains, hops, extras, etc? I noticew there are four different kinds of hops, is this typical of most brews? The two I have done have had only two types of hops. Maybe this will be like taking the training wheels off...

Also, what is:
IBU?
Row?
SRM?
IBU?

Ha, I can hear your chuckles... I am chuckling too, as I am sure this is elementary stuff. Thanks to all who respond.

Not to not answer your question - but the best source for all of this info is www.howtobrew.com. It's John Palmer's book, probably the best out there for people just getting started, all free and all online. Tons and tons of good info on there - for example - NEVER BOIL YOUR GRAINS (unless doing a decotion).

IBU: International Bitterness Units. A measurement of how bitter a beer is.

Row: How many rows of grain on a stalk of barley. 2-row vs. 6-row. 2-row is more common, but 6-row has excess enzymes to help convert sugars when using lots of adjunct grains

SRM: A measurement of how transparent/opaque a beer is

IBU: See above.

And yeah...like bird said...I wouldn't dare try all-grain without learning more about the mashing and brewing process than you appear to know right now. The mashing process is a whole new monster, and requires much more attention and precision and care than extract brewing. Try going partial-mash first.

In addition to learning a few terms, unfortunately, you'll have to get a bit more equipment. You say that you can handle all-grain, so I'm assuming that you have a big enough pot. But you do need some additional equipment that ag requires and extract does not.

I think a partial mash is a great option- you can mash and learn the process but use DME or LME for the wort.

If you post your recipe, we could look at it and help you decide if it can be a PM or if it's something really simple that you could try for your first AG and tell you what equipment you'll need.

There is a link to the recipe within the origional post above for reference.
Also:

DME?
LME?

What extra equipment is neccessary for an all-grain? Again, the training wheels are coming off here...

They are types of malt.

www.howtobrew.com

One of the most important thing about going all grain is to understand what you are doing and why. You need to know the basics.

DME = dry malt extract
LME = liquid malt extract

Honestly man, I don't think you should do that recipe. As nicely as I can put it, if you aren't aware of the meaning of these terms you should not be doing an all grain. What did you do for the first two beers?

DME: Dried Malt Extract
LME: Liquid Malt Extract

Only a couple of brews and already want to go AG! Nice. I would definitely second the advice of reading Palmer's book before attempting it. In AG you're gonna have more terms that you won't know if you don't know the ones you've posted: Mashing, Sparging, Strike temp, ect. It's tempting to go gung ho with this stuff and there's nothing wrong with that, but make sure you're thorough about it. We wouldn't want to risk you getting poor results and getting discouraged about the hobby. Ok, off my soap box now...

We're not trying to discourage you from making a good beer- far from it! It's just that to explain AG brewing in just a few sentences is very difficult!

To make it easier, could you tell me your technique for the last two beers you made? Then, I could visualize where you are and know what equipment you have. We would be happy to offer whatever advice we can, and can direct you to the proper place to look things up when we can't answer.

Hey- do you guys know where is that link to a video that has a guy using his homemade setup, and making an AG, and explaining everything he's doing? I bet that would help spie if he could see the whole thing in action- it helped me alot!

I know what these things are, I am just not familiar with your abbreviated references to them. I did a partial-mash for the first two, so I am familiar with steeping the grains etc. I just needed some help with the abbreviations and understanding some of the lingo on this site.

Like I said, I am swallowing my pride a little here... I thank you for your input.

The terms used on this site are standard across the brewing/homebrewing community.

Thank you... I am familiar with a partial-mash brew, as that is what my first two beers were. General procedural description: Steep Grains, add DME amongst other things, add hops, boil 55 mins, add bittering hops, obil 5 more, rapid cool, plastic fermenter, ferment 4 days, 2-stage fermentation over to carboy, let sit 10 days, bottle.

spie0092 said:

I know what these things are, I am just not familiar with your abbreviated references to them. I did a partial-mash for the first two, so I am familiar with steeping the grains etc. I just needed some help with the abbreviations and understanding some of the lingo on this site.

Like I said, I am swallowing my pride a little here... I thank you for your input.

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No problem- no one is trying to make you feel bad! Great- if you've done a PM then you're part way there. What did you use to mash your grains in? It probably isn't big enough to mash the AG, but it might be depending on what you have.

A PM and AG is similar- the AG is just bigger, because you'll be mashing all the grains instead of just a few of them. You can do a batch sparge ("rinse") in whatever container you're mashing in. When I did PMs, I did them in my bottling bucket. It worked fine, but it didn't hold temperatures very well. When I went AG, I had to get a converted cooler to hold the temperature steady for an hour. That is really the key- hitting your strike temperature and then maintaining it steady for the whole mash.

Yea, I don't want to sound discouraging either, so hopefully it wasn't taken that way!

WGive us the brief desciption of your setup? What are you going to used to mash in? Are you batch sparging or fly sparging? DO you have a big enough pot for a full boil of 6+ gallons?

spie0092 said:

Thank you... I am familiar with a partial-mash brew, as that is what my first two beers were. General procedural description: Steep Grains, add DME amongst other things, add hops, boil 55 mins, add bittering hops, obil 5 more, rapid cool, plastic fermenter, ferment 4 days, 2-stage fermentation over to carboy, let sit 10 days, bottle.

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That doesn't sound like a partial mash, just an extract-with-steeping grains beer. Doesn't sound like you have any base malt, so there was no starch conversion to sugar, ergo not a mash. Not a huge difference, but not exactly the same.

Read the book - trust me, it'll make the entire process a LOT clearer. Hell, I just bought myself a hardcopy of it as a reference.

I think I may be in over my head here... I need to do more reading.

I used a 5 gal pot for the first two, never had a cooler. I would rapid cool in the pot by placing it in a tub of ice water, then go straight to the platic bucket for the first stage of fermentation.

spie0092 said:

Thank you... I am familiar with a partial-mash brew, as that is what my first two beers were. General procedural description: Steep Grains, add DME amongst other things, add hops, boil 55 mins, add bittering hops, obil 5 more, rapid cool, plastic fermenter, ferment 4 days, 2-stage fermentation over to carboy, let sit 10 days, bottle.

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Thanks for the information. Hate to tell you- but your first brews weren't partial mash. These were extract brews using steeping grains. It sounds like you've got that technique down, and it's great that you're ready to move on!

I really suggest to start reading here: http://howtobrew.com/section3/index.html

this will totally demystify the whole thing because there are pictures to explain what the terms mean. Since you won't be using extract, the first step is to actually make that first and that's what happens in the "mash".

Good luck- I'm excited that you want to dive in to AG already. It took me a ton of extract brews before I felt confident enough to even try partial mashing and AG. I'll be glad to try to answer any questions you have, even though I'm new to AG, too!

Thanks all!!!

Conclusions:

Do more homework!
I'll be back soon a more educated man.

Realizations:
There are no shortcuts, nor should there be.
This is a much more specific process.

Wow, we sound like an infomercial for Palmer's book! I'm thinking of getting the 3rd ed. print version... much difference?

That's the spirit! You are right, there are volumes of detail added to the process when going all-grain.

However, you undertand the concepts of brewing, you've got hands-on-deck time with the process and equipment, and you have the desire to read, learn, and take tips. You will be making kick-azz AG beer sooner than it might seem at first if you keep up the same set of ideas. Brew on!!!!

omniscientomar said:

Wow, we sound like an infomercial for Palmer's book! I'm thinking of getting the 3rd ed. print version... much difference?

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Seriously. HBT should be getting royalties! I'm not familiar with the differences in the editions, sorry.

.....I'm still pissed I haven't bought Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers" book. As bird will vouch for, THAT's some good bathroom reading.

Fiery Sword said:

.....I'm still pissed I haven't bought Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers" book. As bird will vouch for, THAT's some good bathroom reading.

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I was going to say, the big advantage of hardcover Palmer is bathroom reading. Fiery, get yourself a copy of Daniel's book; it's a phenomenal resource when you want to put together your own recipes, plus it gives a lot of technical info and good backstory on styles.

the_bird said:

I was going to say, the big advantage of hardcover Palmer is bathroom reading. Fiery, get yourself a copy of Daniel's book; it's a phenomenal resource when you want to put together your own recipes, plus it gives a lot of technical info and good backstory on styles.

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It's $42 dollars from Amazon UK.

orfy said:

It's $42 dollars from Amazon UK.

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A local bookstore has it for $20......how much is postage to Cheshire?

Fiery Sword said:

A local bookstore has it for $20......how much is postage to Cheshire?

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I've been paying around $4.50 for items off ebay. Not sure on the weight though.

Actually, Amazon.com has it for $13.95 and it says in the shipping details that they can ship to Europe. DVDs, Books, and other stuff go for $4.50 but it might take a while to get there...

omniscientomar said:

Actually, Amazon.com has it for $13.95 and it says in the shipping details that they can ship to Europe. DVDs, Books, and other stuff go for $4.50 but it might take a while to get there...

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Cheers omniscientomar.

Is that Amazon or a vendor?

Some of the US vendors have very low rating. I have tried twice to purchase from US vendors and it went wrong both times. Some of them list books that they do not have in stock and try to source them after the sail.


This is not the experience I've had from US ebay sellers. I've had good service from them.

orfy said:

Cheers omniscientomar.

Is that Amazon or a vendor?

Some of the US vendors have very low rating. I have tried twice to purchase from US vendors and it went wrong both time. Some of them list books that they do not have in stock and try to source them after the sail.


This is not the experience I've had from US ebay sellers. I've had good service from them.

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I've bought a lot of books from Amazon vendors, and only had one issue (they "oversold" a particular title). But, I only buy from people with pretty high ratings and a lot of feedback.

Good looking out. It seems to be from Amazon though. It's available with the amazon prime and it is in stock. Take a look & let me know what you think.

Yep, It's Amazon.

It won't give me a shipping price without inputting my card details.
But looking at their credit card offer it'll cost me

around $30. I'll see if I can find it cheaper in the UK if not I think I'll get it.

Thanks for the help.

Spie, after I read Palmer's online book, I found this site and thought it was helpful when I went AG.

And as good as that Sorachi Saison looks and sounds, I'd advise doing something simple - a pale ale, brown ale, stout - as your first AG. That way, you can concentrate on the process as opposed to juggling a slew of ingredients and feeling like the guy spinning plates on The Ed Sullivan Show!