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Old 11-04-2013, 01:39 AM   #1
DeToX
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Default Need Help - Adjusting Hop Volume

Hopefully, I am in the right section here. If not, I apologize. Anyway, I am looking to make a couple of adjustments to this Nut Brown recipe...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/nut-brown-ag-30187/

...and make it an IMPERIAL Nut Brown. I can handle adjusting the grain volume, but I am having a heck of a time getting any useful info on how I would adjust the amount of hops for it.

No - I do not use beersmith, or any other "build your own" type stuff. It's all done the old fashion way around here.

Can you guys give any sound advise on this? Any help is appreciated.

Cheers

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:11 AM   #2
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You're writing on a forum to collect opinions from an international community of home brewers. Thats not very "old fashioned".

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:15 AM   #3
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We'll, a lot depends on what kind of levels of hop you want for your imperial version. Since you clearly need to up the grain bill to meet this goal, what IBUs are you shooting for? Or do you just to have some equivalent number in comparison to the increased grain bill?

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:15 AM   #4
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Old fashioned - just wing it!
Past fashioned - figure out the calculations for hop utility based on Alpha acids and boil timing.

My suggestion is to use one of the calculators that you are bashing!

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kh54s10 View Post
Old fashioned - just wing it!
Past fashioned - figure out the calculations for hop utility based on Alpha acids and boil timing.

My suggestion is to use one of the calculators that you are bashing!
I second this post wholeheartedly. Why are you re-inventing the wheel every time you design a recipe?

However, if you must do the calcs by hand, I recommend using a handy tool called the BU:SG ratio. It is simply the ratio of IBUs to gravity points and for a nut brown I would say it should be in the 0.6 to 0.8 range. For example, a beer with 50 IBUs and a SG of 1.070 has a BU:SG ratio of 50 / 70 ≈ 0.72. For imperial versions of beers, the BU:SG ratio shouldn't really change all that much.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:41 PM   #6
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Well, first off let me thank you guys for the wholesome welcome & support. Let's see if we can get somewhere here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhbutler View Post
You're writing on a forum to collect opinions from an international community of home brewers. Thats not very "old fashioned".
Agreed. But before the acquisitions, I will just throw it out there that the way I was taught to brew was by my Father - who never had the internet, fancy calculators, brewing groups, etc. He was a farm man that worked his fields for a living. He made his own recipes - he gathered his own rain water, he grew his own barley in the fields, malted it himself every harvest. Grew his own hops up the side of the barn, forged his own kettle, blah blah blah. There was no other way for him to learn other than by trial and error in the back of the barn. He has since passed and I try to keep the family tradition of beer making as true to my original education as possible. Doing it the 'old fashioned' way. However, I do have the luxury of the internet, and more profound information. So, I was taught that if you don't know it is better to ask than to make an ass of yourself and screw something up. On the farm, that can cost a family their meal, and most certainly cost you an ass whoopin. Get where I'm coming from? So, if you have nothing useful to contribute, then just politely chuckle to yourself about my post, think I'm an uneducated idiot, and just move on.

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Originally Posted by 45thparallelhopper View Post
We'll, a lot depends on what kind of levels of hop you want for your imperial version. Since you clearly need to up the grain bill to meet this goal, what IBUs are you shooting for? Or do you just to have some equivalent number in comparison to the increased grain bill?
I guess I would be shooting for something that matches the original, in terms of IBU ratio. With the grain bill increasing by roughly 38% (on the strong side) I originally thought of taking the hops up by that same percentage, or maybe around 25%. But, that leads me to believe that the extra hops would up the IBU's to a level that would not match that of the original, if you follow. That's why I was looking to see if there was a 'standard' in increasing a recipe to an Imperial while trying to keep the same flavor profile - per se...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kh54s10 View Post
Old fashioned - just wing it!
Past fashioned - figure out the calculations for hop utility based on Alpha acids and boil timing.

My suggestion is to use one of the calculators that you are bashing!
Please point out where I was 'bashing' these calculators. I simply stated that brewing in my family was done the old fashioned way - without the technology, high tech equipment, and so on - that is available these days. This was stated above in my first response. Never once bashed it. Just do it as close to the way it was done before our time as possible. The true sense...

Anyways, I do agree with your theory on calc'ing the utilization of hops based on AA and boil time, but (for lack of better examples) a beer with 10 lbs of grain and 2 oz of hops will not be the same beer with 20 lbs of grain and 4 oz of hops, ya know. IBU's, at least in modern fashion, are calc'd by AA, boil time, & amount of hops. However, it does not really cover the grain amount into that figure.

That's why I was looking for a point in the right direction. Desperate times call for desperate measures. It's like the last fat chick out the door at 2:12 AM... Sometimes, it just has to be done because its the only option left.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukebrewer View Post
I second this post wholeheartedly. Why are you re-inventing the wheel every time you design a recipe?

However, if you must do the calcs by hand, I recommend using a handy tool called the BU:SG ratio. It is simply the ratio of IBUs to gravity points and for a nut brown I would say it should be in the 0.6 to 0.8 range. For example, a beer with 50 IBUs and a SG of 1.070 has a BU:SG ratio of 50 / 70 ≈ 0.72. For imperial versions of beers, the BU:SG ratio shouldn't really change all that much.
Now that is a sound piece of advise there. Have you ever used this method in a recipe you did personally? If so, how were the results.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:37 AM   #8
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Now that is a sound piece of advise there. Have you ever used this method in a recipe you did personally? If so, how were the results.
It's one of the things I always check when designing a recipe, so to answer your question, yes I have used this method many times. I don't have the fancy lab equipment to do exact IBU calcs or anything, but I've found that the BU:SG ratio is a very good predictor of balance in a beer.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeToX View Post

Can you guys give any sound advise on this? Any help is appreciated.

Cheers
Very interesting thread. I appreciate your story and I applaud you and your approach to brewing. Unfortunately, there are far too many people who have forgotten that we have been brewing beer for thousands of years without the aid of refrigeration, temperature controllers or (gasp!) the internet.
Some of the responses also illustrate the fact that, sadly, there are more horse's asses than there are horses.

Keep up your efforts to brew beer the "old fashioned way".
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukebrewer View Post
It's one of the things I always check when designing a recipe, so to answer your question, yes I have used this method many times. I don't have the fancy lab equipment to do exact IBU calcs or anything, but I've found that the BU:SG ratio is a very good predictor of balance in a beer.
Is it the IBU's/Bitterness you are trying to keep close, or the ratio percentage?

I can get the ratio close to the original recipe (which for the recipe I posted was .42) But, in theory, that would put my IBU's way up there. No where near the 22.7 IBU listed. Now I know that the IBU's shouldn't/wouldn't be the same but I would figure them to be a bit closer (bitterness levels)...

Maybe some one could dbl check this for me here - on this Imperial I am after a target OG of 1.086 - 1.091. So let's say .88. Now, what (IBU number) would need to be divided by 88 in order to obtain .42? (I have my answer, but want to see if other's may get the same).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddlethumper View Post
Very interesting thread. I appreciate your story and I applaud you and your approach to brewing. Unfortunately, there are far too many people who have forgotten that we have been brewing beer for thousands of years without the aid of refrigeration, temperature controllers or (gasp!) the internet.
Some of the responses also illustrate the fact that, sadly, there are more horse's asses than there are horses.

Keep up your efforts to brew beer the "old fashioned way".
Thank you. It is by far a labor of love, but worth every sip. It has also yielded many awards over the years, which is never a bad thing.

Ya'll should try fermenting with natural yeast. You want to talk about 'old fashioned'. Most of these JR's on here wouldn't even know what that is. But that's a whole 'nother thread....

Cheers
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