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Old 07-05-2010, 08:31 PM   #1
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Default To mash out or not to mash out?

Just want a general idea if anyone skips this part. At the brewery i work at we skip mashing out and cut straight to sparging. I tried it to see if it would gain efficency but my sparge water was to cold so i couldnt see results.

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Old 07-05-2010, 09:07 PM   #2
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I skip the mash out and just use more sparge water.

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Old 07-05-2010, 09:14 PM   #3
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If I'm doing a fly sparge, I'll often mash out. Partly just to get the grainbed temperature up and not having to use scorching hot water for the sparge since my temperature tends to drop a bit during the sparge.

If I'm batch sparging, I never do a mash out.

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Old 07-05-2010, 10:05 PM   #4
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Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. It depends on how saucy I'm feeling. You won't see a better explanation of it than right here:

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index...iency#Mash-out

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Old 07-05-2010, 11:40 PM   #5
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A timely thread. Especially since I came on to the forum to look into the same question.

In my case, I am planning to start mashing out due to the limits of my system. I'm a stovetop, batch-sparging brewer and collect my runnings in a big, food-grade bucket rather than into a kettle. I then transfer all of the collected wort into two 5 gal pots. The problem that is driving me to doing a mash out is that my beers have been finishing much lower than anticipated or desired (1.006 to 1.004). I'm assuming that letting the collected wort cool in the bucket without denaturing the enzymes is resulting in much more fermentable wort. My goal is to get my FG within the desired attenuation range based on my OG and chosen yeast.

I suppose that I could collect my first runnings and 'warm' them up on the stove, but ...

Thank you for listening to my tale of woe.

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Old 07-06-2010, 03:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugent View Post
A timely thread. Especially since I came on to the forum to look into the same question.

In my case, I am planning to start mashing out due to the limits of my system. I'm a stovetop, batch-sparging brewer and collect my runnings in a big, food-grade bucket rather than into a kettle. I then transfer all of the collected wort into two 5 gal pots. The problem that is driving me to doing a mash out is that my beers have been finishing much lower than anticipated or desired (1.006 to 1.004). I'm assuming that letting the collected wort cool in the bucket without denaturing the enzymes is resulting in much more fermentable wort. My goal is to get my FG within the desired attenuation range based on my OG and chosen yeast.

I suppose that I could collect my first runnings and 'warm' them up on the stove, but ...

Thank you for listening to my tale of woe.
I doubt it will solve your problem. With modern malts the enzymatic conversion is so fast that with a 60min mash time it is long done. No more conversion to do. If you are finding the FG lower than you want then increase your mash temperature - that is by far the most easily controlled variable for determining your FG. The mash temps provided with recipes are guidelines only. Every brewer will need to tweak it for their system and process to achieve the same end result.

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Old 07-06-2010, 03:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Trub? View Post
I doubt it will solve your problem. With modern malts the enzymatic conversion is so fast that with a 60min mash time it is long done. No more conversion to do. If you are finding the FG lower than you want then increase your mash temperature - that is by far the most easily controlled variable for determining your FG. The mash temps provided with recipes are guidelines only. Every brewer will need to tweak it for their system and process to achieve the same end result.

GT
A question, though, that I'm asking to be sure that I'm not misunderstanding this.

Even if conversion (sacchrification) is done in the mash, can't the enzymes - if they aren't denatured - break the converted sugar down into simpler, more fermentable, sugars as the temperature drops?
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:03 AM   #8
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I fly sparge and mash out to avoid stuck sparges.
Nugent, the general thinking is that once you have raised up to mash out temp and held for about 15 min, you have destroyed (denatured) the enzymes responsible for saccarification and thus they are (for all practical purposes) inactive.

BTW Nugent, I notice you are in Vancouver - are you a VanBrewer?

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugent View Post
A question, though, that I'm asking to be sure that I'm not misunderstanding this.

Even if conversion (sacchrification) is done in the mash, can't the enzymes - if they aren't denatured - break the converted sugar down into simpler, more fermentable, sugars as the temperature drops?
They can. But it is a race between the alpha/beta amylase and time. As soon as the hot water hits the mash the enzymes are degrading. By the time you hit 60 minutes only a small fraction of active a/b amylase remains. If you mash for 90' instead of 60' for an identical grain bill and mash temperature you will only see a small decrease in your FG. The key is to have a consistent process. Then adjust your strike temp to get your FG where you want it.

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:49 AM   #10
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GT,

Thanks for the info. What you're saying makes sense. It points to the importance of understanding your system rather than following generalizations. Cheers.

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