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Old 08-31-2010, 09:00 PM   #21
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pksmitty- what I've find with Beersmith is that it really doesn't give you the calculation for the batch sparge water temp to get to 168. But, if you "cheat" and do it as a profile with a mashout, you can use that mash out temp for your first batch sparge infusion and almost always hit 168 exactly!
But is there any reason to have the grain bed precisely at 168 when mashing out/batch sparging? It was my understanding that you basically just need to get the grain bed above 168 to stop the enzymatic processes, however I have never seen a need to hold at a specific temperature.

My typical procedure is to mash in a large 10 gallon cylindrical cooler, lauter, then batch sparge in two equal volumes with a stir/10 minute rest/stir/vorlauf/lauter for each. I typically heat the sparge water up to around 190-195 and this usually gets the grain bed in the neighborhood of 175 when I'm sparging.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:12 PM   #22
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But is there any reason to have the grain bed precisely at 168 when mashing out/batch sparging? It was my understanding that you basically just need to get the grain bed above 168 to stop the enzymatic processes, however I have never seen a need to hold at a specific temperature.

My typical procedure is to mash in a large 10 gallon cylindrical cooler, lauter, then batch sparge in two equal volumes with a stir/10 minute rest/stir/vorlauf/lauter for each. I typically heat the sparge water up to around 190-195 and this usually gets the grain bed in the neighborhood of 175 when I'm sparging.
No, you definitely don't have to keep it at precisely 168! But it's the "sweet spot". You denature the enzymes, preserving the wort profile, encourage lower wort viscosity for lautering, and you avoid any risk of a too-high temperature sparge that is a concern when you go over 170 in the grain bed.

In my opinion, 175 is too hot. I don't go over 170.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:25 PM   #23
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I personally don't mash-out. Seems like a waste of time and uses up too much sparge water; I should note that I'm a batch sparger. I put the first runnings on flame as soon as it comes out, so that will stop the enzymes. Then the addition of the sparge water will stop any enzymatic activity in the mash.

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Old 08-31-2010, 09:27 PM   #24
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No, you definitely don't have to keep it at precisely 168! But it's the "sweet spot". You denature the enzymes, preserving the wort profile, encourage lower wort viscosity for lautering, and you avoid any risk of a too-high temperature sparge that is a concern when you go over 170 in the grain bed.

In my opinion, 175 is too hot. I don't go over 170.
Sounds like I may need to do a little more reading. I wasn't aware of any risk of a (reasonably) too high temperature sparge (i.e. 175). What are some of the ill effects?
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:36 PM   #25
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I don't do one. I batch sparge. It literally takes me 3 minutes to drain the mash and add the first sparge bring the grain up to 168. The initial run off is drained into the boil kettle which I start heating while the 1st and 2nd sparge are conducted. To do a mash out would be completely dumb for my setup. For others it may help.

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Old 08-31-2010, 09:47 PM   #26
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noob question-- if you are doing a stovetop partial mash,

1. Is mashing out a good idea for the grain you are mashing?
2. If you dont have the volume to add sparge water to the mash, would just adding heat to bring kettle up to 168 be an appropriate plan?

sorry to thread jack.. but, its a question relevant to the "to do or not to do" theme.

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Old 08-31-2010, 09:54 PM   #27
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I wasn't aware of any risk of a (reasonably) too high temperature sparge (i.e. 175). What are some of the ill effects?
Could lead to astringency in your beer, may be caused by tannin extraction at higher temps.

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The temperature of the sparge water is important. The water should be no more than 170°F, as husk tannins become more soluble above this temperature, depending on wort pH. This could lead to astringency in the beer.
Palmer 17:4 http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:58 PM   #28
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Could lead to astringency in your beer, may be caused by tannin extraction at higher temps.



Palmer 17:4 http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html
Thank you, glad I stopped by this thread.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:26 PM   #29
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noob question-- if you are doing a stovetop partial mash,

1. Is mashing out a good idea for the grain you are mashing?
2. If you dont have the volume to add sparge water to the mash, would just adding heat to bring kettle up to 168 be an appropriate plan?

sorry to thread jack.. but, its a question relevant to the "to do or not to do" theme.
As Scutmonkey mentioned, batch spargers tend to not mash out. Mostly because they don't need to.

If you're doing a partial mash, you probably would rather batch sparge anyway. Fly sparging would be tough with a stove top partial mash.

What I would do with a PM is to mash in with 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. After the mash is over, you could lift up your grain bag and just dunk it into the sparge water. Or, you could lift up the grain bag and pour 170 degree water over it, up to the boil volume.

You could heat up the kettle, but you do that anyway when you bring the wort up to a boil so I don't see the point or necessity of a mash out. I'd prefer using any water as sparge water, as I think you'd get more out of the grain that way if the volume amount would be an issue.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:11 PM   #30
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I fly sparge so I do a hotter than normal sparge... too hot will give some astringency... I try not to go over 175° over 180° I have noticed some astringency. 185° was the worst, wasn't paying attention when brought sparge water up to temp. Only checked temp after it was running. DOH!

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