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-   -   Mash Out Issues (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/mash-out-issues-355312/)

CatalinaBrewing 09-19-2012 05:02 AM
Mash Out Issues
 
Well, I've been looking for a Blichmann BoilerMaker. The reason being is that I can never hit the correct mash out temperature. Lets say I mash in at 154 degrees for 60 minutes. After the 60 minutes the goal is to raise the temperature to 168 degrees for 15 minutes. I've added boiling water to my mash, but I never hit that 168 degree number. I really don't like the idea of adding so much boiling water to reach my mash out goal.

I love my 10 gallon cooler mash tun. Is the Blichmann BoilerMaker the wrong path? I'm just really trying to hit the correct numbers to make the best product that I possibly can.

Should I try doing the decoction method instead? Boil a gallon of my wort run-off and add that back to the mash to reach 168 degrees? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Frodo 09-19-2012 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatalinaBrewing (Post 4425064)
Well, I've been looking for a Blichmann BoilerMaker. The reason being is that I can never hit the correct mash out temperature. Lets say I mash in at 154 degrees for 60 minutes. After the 60 minutes the goal is to raise the temperature to 168 degrees for 15 minutes. I've added boiling water to my mash, but I never hit that 168 degree number. I really don't like the idea of adding so much boiling water to reach my mash out goal.

I love my 10 gallon cooler mash tun. Is the Blichmann BoilerMaker the wrong path? I'm just really trying to hit the correct numbers to make the best product that I possibly can.

Should I try doing the decoction method instead? Boil a gallon of my wort run-off and add that back to the mash to reach 168 degrees? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

I've been skipping the mash out step, and don't really see a pressing need for it, but maybe I'm missing something. Ceasing enzyme activity with a mash out doesn't seem that worthwhile to me; I fly sparge and can use more of the water for sparging so I get more of the sugars from the grain without the mash out step.

CatalinaBrewing 09-19-2012 05:45 AM
I fly sparge too. I've wondered about that. I mean, we sparge at that 168 degree temperature too...

In theory it sounds correct.

Mpavlik22 09-19-2012 01:06 PM
If you mash for 60 minutes, the mash out step is almost pointless. For a 60 minute mash, all enzymatic conversion is complete (unless you use +50% wheat or mash really low like 146F). When you run off and start to boil it stops all enzymatic activity, so after a 60 minute mash all conversion should be complete.

Yooper 09-19-2012 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpavlik22 (Post 4425456)
If you mash for 60 minutes, the mash out step is almost pointless. For a 60 minute mash, all enzymatic conversion is complete (unless you use +50% wheat or mash really low like 146F). When you run off and start to boil it stops all enzymatic activity, so after a 60 minute mash all conversion should be complete.
I wouldn't say it's pointless, as it is supposed to "lock" in the profile of the wort by denaturing the enzymes. In theory, if you don't mash out before flysparging, and it takes an hour to sparge, you could end up with a slightly thinner result in the final beer as the enzymes continue to work.

I say in theory, because there are other things going on as well. First, you generally start your runnings on to boil as you drain them off, or at least on the heat, so it doesn't take an hour to come to a boil after the sparge is finished. That right there would work as a "mash out". I also don't think the mash profile will change that much during a sparge, but I've heard of a few brewers say that they do have some underattenuation issues.

I mashed in a 10 gallon igloo cooler for years. I just went to a keg MLT this spring. If the only reason to upgrade is to do a mash out, I wouldn't bother. Stainless MLTs lose heat faster, while coolers are already insulated. There are reasons, maybe, upgrade, but there are also reasons to stay with what you have.

RmikeVT 09-19-2012 01:59 PM
You should do a brew w/o the mashout step and see how that goes. As soon as you get the first running into the kettle bring it up to 170+. Effectively this acts like a mashout and you won't be wasting sparge water. No need for new equipment.

CatalinaBrewing 09-19-2012 02:24 PM
Thanks for all the information. Very helpful.

BigEd 09-19-2012 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatalinaBrewing (Post 4425064)
Well, I've been looking for a Blichmann BoilerMaker. The reason being is that I can never hit the correct mash out temperature. Lets say I mash in at 154 degrees for 60 minutes. After the 60 minutes the goal is to raise the temperature to 168 degrees for 15 minutes. I've added boiling water to my mash, but I never hit that 168 degree number. I really don't like the idea of adding so much boiling water to reach my mash out goal.
If you are coming up short on the temperature then you aren't adding enough water. Add more it isn't going to hurt anything. You can simply adjust the amount of your sparge water to compensate for additional infusion water in the mashout. :mug:

Mpavlik22 09-20-2012 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper

I wouldn't say it's pointless, as it is supposed to "lock" in the profile of the wort by denaturing the enzymes. In theory, if you don't mash out before flysparging, and it takes an hour to sparge, you could end up with a slightly thinner result in the final beer as the enzymes continue to work.

I say in theory, because there are other things going on as well. First, you generally start your runnings on to boil as you drain them off, or at least on the heat, so it doesn't take an hour to come to a boil after the sparge is finished. That right there would work as a "mash out". I also don't think the mash profile will change that much during a sparge, but I've heard of a few brewers say that they do have some underattenuation issues.

I mashed in a 10 gallon igloo cooler for years. I just went to a keg MLT this spring. If the only reason to upgrade is to do a mash out, I wouldn't bother. Stainless MLTs lose heat faster, while coolers are already insulated. There are reasons, maybe, upgrade, but there are also reasons to stay with what you have.
Wouldn't it be over attenuation not under attenuation? Seeing how it would continue to convert until denature? That is if there were still active enzymes....

Guerrilla 09-20-2012 02:03 AM
Personally, so extremely anecdotal and non-scientific, i get better efficiency when i mash out. I assume, and have heard, that the higher temp helps loosen sugars making them easier to wash out. May be BS but i personally have seen better results when i do mash out.


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