Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Making dark candi sugar
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2012, 02:05 PM   #1
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default Making dark candi sugar

Reading around, I've found people making dark and light candi sugar by carmelizing sugar. I've also read some folks saying that when making darker candi sugar, the resulting carmelized sugar can leave too many unfermentables in the beer.

I've used carmelized sugar once. Used 400 grams, so just under a pound. Beer went from 1.070 to 1.018. But if that was regular sugar I'd expect more than ~74% attenuation. With my Belgians, I tend to shoot for 87-90% attenuation and like them that way.

So, what's the word? What's the best way to make dark candi sugar if I still want a dry Belgian?

__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
Denny Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 03:23 PM   #2
ReverseApacheMaster
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Keller, Texas
Posts: 4,887
Liked 229 Times on 192 Posts

Default

You can find enough arguments about this subject on this and every other homebrew forum in the world to keep you busy reading for days.

Some people say they get flavor close to the darker products but the big stumbling block is always the difference in fermentability. Homemade products rely on caramelizing or maillard reactions, both of which leave behind unfermentable sugars. The commercially available stuff, like D2, ferments out almost entirely -- like 95% or more. So that's a big problem if you are trying to make a very dry Belgian beer.

My personal belief is that those darker syrups take unrefined beet sugar and do some processing in vacuum boilers to reduce the water content and flesh out some of those flavors. Dark syrups are described as having rum-like flavors, well, how is high quality, dark rum made? It's fermented molasses distilled to rum. They aren't starting with refined sugars and performing some mysterious boil technique to create all those flavors. My theory is widely disputed for various reasons but more or less it all sounds to me like people insisting there must be a way to do at home what sugar manufacturers, with 200 years of experience, can do with vacuum boilers and food scientists. I've tried all different techniques at home but never gotten all the way. Neither has anybody else.

__________________
ReverseApacheMaster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 06:53 PM   #3
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

I've used the liquid dark candi sugar from Belgium, but it doesn't taste the same as carmelized sugar, IMHO. I won't have the chance to get any any time soon, though, sadly. Only place I know to get it, Brouwland, has a 30 euro minimum for shipping to me, even if I were to order only 1 packet of dry yeast. So screw that. Worked well for me in the past, but I simply don't have easy access to it.

I've asked for a shipping quote from these guys, though:

http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html

__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #4
cheezydemon3
Registered User
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: louisville
Posts: 12,967
Liked 1641 Times on 1234 Posts
Likes Given: 3007

Default

I made some dark caramelized sugar last year. Inverted with lemon juice and darkened by maillard.

Delicious on it's own, it made fantastic beer that people raved about, but dry, it was not.

__________________
cheezydemon3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #5
Ravenshead
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ravenshead's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 1,184
Liked 35 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

This thread tells you all you need to know.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-l...trient-114837/

__________________

[QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polorl69 View Post
I had no problems whatsoever getting my pee to ferment.
Ravenshead is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 08:10 PM   #6
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

Reading now. Thanks!

__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 08:20 PM   #7
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,268
Liked 433 Times on 326 Posts
Likes Given: 516

Default

I have tried many different version of homemade candi syrups, but I've never tasted one that tasted like the real thing. IMO, it's worth spending the money.

__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
MattHollingsworth Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
I have tried many different version of homemade candi syrups, but I've never tasted one that tasted like the real thing. IMO, it's worth spending the money.
Thanks Denny. Much appreciated.
__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2012, 03:34 PM   #9
cheezydemon3
Registered User
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: louisville
Posts: 12,967
Liked 1641 Times on 1234 Posts
Likes Given: 3007

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
I have tried many different version of homemade candi syrups, but I've never tasted one that tasted like the real thing. IMO, it's worth spending the money.
Must admit Ive never tasted the real deal.

Mine tasted like the finest dark caramel i have ever tasted. Stuck to your teeth like crazy.
__________________
cheezydemon3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2012, 03:51 PM   #10
mcwilcr
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 885
Liked 78 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

Its funny how my brain and the annals of HBT seem to track with one another. I've noticed the same thing as Denny when it comes to homemade candi sugar not having the same complexities as the D2 or D180 available commercially. I've made some good Candi before that made great beer but I'm in the middle of building a recipe for a belgian dark strong and have been doing a lot of digging on the internet about making maillard reaction and carmalization and think I might be onto something that could help improve my homemade candi. It seems like there are two major things we miss when making candi sugar at home, PH and amino acid content. There seems to be a general consensus that higher PH results in more complex and "better" Candi. The amino acids are aparently what are responsible for the different flavors and we loose most of this because we typically start with refined table sugar. My hope is to increase PH by adding pickling lime to my candi and re-introduce some of the amino acids by adding some molasses or treacle since they are much less refined than table sugar.

__________________
mcwilcr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making Dark Candi Syrup SpanishCastleAle Recipes/Ingredients 20 01-30-2014 01:34 AM
Help with Dark Candi Sugar in Recipes? ultravista Recipes/Ingredients 2 07-03-2012 02:07 PM
How much dark candi sugar? cladinshadows Fermentation & Yeast 3 11-02-2011 05:06 PM
Dark candi sugar vs. syrup andreiz Recipes/Ingredients 4 11-14-2010 11:30 PM
Dark Candi sugar? neldred Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 10-15-2009 04:58 PM