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Old 01-04-2009, 03:20 AM   #1
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Default Lambic

So my wife and I really like the Lindemans Framboise beer. I am not sure I am capable or have the patience to duplicate this fine brew, so I was thinking of trying a Raspberry Wheat of sorts. I need it to taste more of raspberries though then malt, like the Framboise. So I was thinking something like this:

3# Pilsen Malt
3# Wheat Malt
1# Vienna
1# Biscuit Malt?

I was thinking very little hops like:

.5oz Willamette at 45 min
.25oz Willamette at 15 min

For yeast I was thinking the 3278 Belgian Lambic Blend or the 5526 Brettanomyces Lambicus.

To impart the Rasberry, I was thought I would put about 3-4 cans of that Oregon Fruit Puree into the primary and transfer the wort onto it. I was thinking I would taste it after a long primary and if I need to add more raspberry flavor I would transfer to a secondary and add more puree.

What do you think?

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Old 01-04-2009, 10:18 AM   #2
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personally 4 cans seems like alot...but i could be wrong. When i add fruit due to some previous mishaps i tend to add conservatively and then adjust later. You can always add more but you cant take it away. As for the hops, whatever you decide to use, you should put them at room temperature in a paper bag for a while so they "age". Your not really using them for bitterness or hop flavor but as a preservation method for the lambic. Some places supposedly sell aged hops however i have yet to find one. Good luck

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Old 01-04-2009, 03:27 PM   #3
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I have been reading Wild Brews by Jeff Sparrow and they suggest besides doing a torbid mash is using an ale yeast first to eat the majority of simple sugars then use either the the Brettanomyces Lambicus or the Lambic Blend.
Now I would add the fruit right after the initial fermentation is done.

It also says in the book to use unmalted white wheat instead of malted wheat.

on page 256 of Wild Brews is the basic lambic recipe.
60% Pilsner malt
40% unmalted Wheat

Mash Schedule: Torbid Mash
Assume 2.35 quarts of liquor/pound of grain.
1. Dough-in wheat with 10% of the barley malt and 75% of the liquor at 140° F (60° C)
2. Increase to 212° F (100° C), and hold for aproximately 30 minutes.
3. Add the balance of the malt and liquor. Adjust the temperature to 158° F (70° C), and hold for aproximately 2 hours, stirring continuosly.
4. Rest 30 minutes.
5. Sparge with 203° F (95° C) Liquor.

I'm not sure how many cans of the Oregon Fruit Puree you would use, just consider that the cans contain 49 ounces.

I'm considering a Lamic in the future.

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Old 01-04-2009, 04:18 PM   #4
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I think you guys are missing the point the OP didn't want to make a Lambic because of time of return. Adding that much raspberry to a wheat beer will most likely be too much, the thing that you have to remember is that using real fruit will give you a wine like quality, especially in large quantities. You may want to use say one can of raspberry puree and then adjust the flavor at bottling with a raspberry extract.

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Old 01-04-2009, 04:22 PM   #5
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Using the brett yeast is what takes the time, and a good portion of what makes it a Lambic. If you don't want to do the time, don't do the yeast.

I used 6-6# fresh raspberries in secondary and it was beautiful. I don't know how that turns into cans of puree, but I imagine it would be similar.

I would also consider using acidulated malt to bring a little of the sourness into the brew.

Copied from BrewBoard's "Impatient Man's Lambic-ish":

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

....THE IMPATIENT MAN'S LAMBIC-ISH FRAMBOISE....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Or ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

........................... "A Cheater's Framboise" ........................

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


(Calculations are for 5.5 gallons, assuming .5 gallons lost to trub in the kettle, etc. I boiled 5.5 gal's and topped off to remake volume before chilling)


GRAINS

Mash:

7.5 lb British two-row
0.6 lb Crystal 20L
0.6 lb Crystal 40L
0.6 lb British crystal 50-60L
0.25 lb CaraPils
1 oz Black Patent
1 oz Roasted Barley
1/2 oz Smoked Malt

(Gravity at this point is 1.044)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


SOURING THE WORT

Add 1/2 lb crushed (but unmashed) 2-Row malt to the wort/runnings once it has cooled to 120 degrees F

Let it sit for 15-24 hours, insulated with a blanket.

Important:

Keep close tabs on it in the hours after 12. As with all things bacterial, and fungal, I think the activity was exponential. It soured a LOT in the last few hours. Keep an eye on it when doing this, esp. in the later hours and don't "assume" a certain amount time will be right. Ii got very very sour in the last 3 hours, when it had seemingly not soured at all (at least to taste) in the first 12 hours).

Also:

Pitch in the ground unmashed grains at about 120 degrees into the wort, not 130, as Papazian mentions. The higher temp seems to pasteurize or shock the stinky lactobacillus / pedococcus / diaperbacillus bugs. 110-120 works fine.

Also:

I kept the wort in my kettle as it was souring. I did not want to possibly infect anything in my brew-works with the lacto-bugs. I figured the boil would eventually kill everything in the kettle off.

Oh:

It will taste absolutely awful when it is done souring: sour, and "funky/moldy"


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THE BOIL

Skim any gunk that has formed on top of the wort. Then pour the wort off of the crud (from the unmashed grains) at bottom of whatever vessel you soured it in, and put back in your kettle.

Bring the Wort to a boil.

(Total boil time is 90 minutes)


Boil for 30 minutes. It will stink like hell for the first 30 minutes of the boil...

At 30 minutes into the boil


HOPS

60 Minutes: 0.25 oz Stale Cascade hops 5.3%* (plug)

30 Minutes: 0.25 oz Stale Cascade hops 5.3%* (plug)

* These were old and very stale, so they had little or no bittering properties-- so the AA's there are probably not realistic AT ALL. I recently read you could do that to your hops by drying them out in a low oven for a while

15 minutes:

Add to the boil 1lb Wheat DME

(Recipe gravity before wheat: 44. With Wheat Extract 51.)


Whirlfloc @ 10 minutes.

Flameout.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PRIMARY FERMENTATION

Top off with water to reach 5.5 gallons, Cool, and rack into primary fermenter.

Pitch a healthy starter of American Ale Yeast 2 (Wyeast # 1272), and wait for hell to break loose. This one ferments wildly, and with the wheat dme, a blowoff tube is an absolute necessity.

A note on my yeast choice: I chose this because of its description: "Fruitier and more flocculant than 1056, slightly nutty, soft, clean, slightly tart finish." Fruity and tart is what I was looking for, along with the "unplaceable" nuttiness. I also wanted a kick-butt strong-fermenting yeast with good attenuation. All seemed to fit the bill with 1272. I fermented at the top of it's range (72 degrees) to accentuate the fruity aspects of it. I am sure you could use a Belgian yeast if you wanted to, but the reason I used this one is because of the impatience.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SECONDARY FERMENTATION (& the Framboise part)



When primary fermentation is pretty much done (5 days or so), rack the wort into a 6.5 gal secondary (transferring some of the highly flocculant yeast), on top of:

8-9 lbs of Raspberries

I used frozen raspberries which were added to a pint of water (to prevent scorching/pectin setting on the stove), and pasteurized at 140 degrees for 25 mins and then cooled.

Now wait for hell to REALLY break loose. Attach a blowoff tube. Trust me.

When fermentation settles down, add pectic enzyme (at slightly higher doses than normal because of the alcohol content of the fermenter).


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TERTIARY FERMENTATION


Rack (avoiding the raspberry gunk) to a Tertiary fermenter to clear when secondary is done.

(OPTIONAL: Depending on how sweet you want this to be, add up to 3 lbs (yes, 3 lbs) Lactose (boiled in enough water to dissolve it). I added most of it, but if you want something very dry, add none. It will be very, very dry, eventually.)

Let settle/ferment/condition/clarify/whatever for about 2 weeks. For some reason, despite gravity readings being steady, I still got bubbling in my pipe. When I tasted it, it had a lot of CO2 in solution, which I think is what is bubbling).

My final gravity was in the neighborhood of 1.010-1.012

Bottle with a healthy dose of carbonation (more than normal; suggest 5 oz corn sugar or, in my case, 3/4 cup honey).


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Old 01-04-2009, 04:25 PM   #6
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I would stick with the cans of oregon fruit. The raspberry wine flavoring extract tastes like cough syrup.

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Old 01-05-2009, 02:51 AM   #7
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If you don't want to put in the time, then don't use the lambic blend yeast - you're looking at 4 - 18 months if you use that. To shortcut, you could ferment with a neutral yeast, I would go with S-04 to highlight the malts instead S-05 which would highlight the hops. Then add the raspberries to the secondary - Randy Mosher recommends 1 - 1.5 pounds per gallon for raspberries - if the cans are 49oz, then that's 2 cans. Once that fermented out, then I would take a measured sample and add food grade lactic acid in such a manner that you can scale it up to the whole batch when you find the appropriate amount.

Also...on the hops, they are only used for their preservative qualities in lambic, so go with the lowest AA rate you can find and use sparingly...if at all. The lactic acid will provide the flavor counterpart to the malt sweetness. I would look at using maybe .5 - .75 oz of Hallertau or Crystal added at 45 or 60 minutes.

Finally...I've never done this, so you can take all of this with a grain of salt.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Chris

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Old 01-05-2009, 06:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGengo View Post
Crystal added at 45 or 60 minutes.
are you refering to adding this to the mash to sour it? if so it has to be left for much longer than that. If your talking about adding to the boil what is the purpose of that- i was always under the impression that grain getting into the boil added astringency to the beer.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:45 PM   #9
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I think he's talkin hops.

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Old 01-05-2009, 06:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scinerd3000 View Post
are you refering to adding this to the mash to sour it? if so it has to be left for much longer than that. If your talking about adding to the boil what is the purpose of that- i was always under the impression that grain getting into the boil added astringency to the beer.
I am assuming they meant Crystal hops, not grains.
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