Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > I want to use yeast rather than priming sugar for bottling
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2009, 11:45 PM   #1
fastricky
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
fastricky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 834
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts

Default I want to use yeast rather than priming sugar for bottling

Got an idea I want to try...

It will involve using a different strain of yeast than I brewed with.

I'll wait til fermentation is nearly done, crash cool, and then when transferring to the bottling bucket, add the new yeast.

So the question is: how much yeast should I add?

My plan was to add the entire White Labs vial to my batch (5.5 gallons).

Is that OK? I'm thinking it will be adequate, and that I won't need to create a starter. As well, that there won't be any risk of bottle bombs.

Of course this is mostly speculation... can someone let me know if any of this thinking is off?? Thanks!!

__________________
fastricky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2009, 11:50 PM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,099
Liked 4479 Times on 3260 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

What do you plan? Use a lower attenuating yeast for fementing, and then a higher attenuating yeast for the carbing?

I don't know how it'll work. I mean, the attenuation levels are iffy anyway, depending on various factors. Say you were planning on getting 70% attenuation with the first yeast, but got 67%. If you added a yeast that is alcohol tolerant (since there is alcohol already present by this point), and attenuated normally at 72%, it might work. But what if it attenated at 80% this time? Or 68%? I think that carbonation would be very tricky, and possibly create bottle bombs.

You might have flat, totally uncarbed beer. Or you might have bottle bombs. I say 50/50 chance of either.

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:01 AM   #3
niquejim
Burrowing Owl Brewery
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
niquejim's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cape Coral Florida
Posts: 2,391
Liked 43 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 87

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
What do you plan? Use a lower attenuating yeast for fementing, and then a higher attenuating yeast for the carbing?

I don't know how it'll work. I mean, the attenuation levels are iffy anyway, depending on various factors. Say you were planning on getting 70% attenuation with the first yeast, but got 67%. If you added a yeast that is alcohol tolerant (since there is alcohol already present by this point), and attenuated normally at 72%, it might work. But what if it attenated at 80% this time? Or 68%? I think that carbonation would be very tricky, and possibly create bottle bombs.

You might have flat, totally uncarbed beer. Or you might have bottle bombs. I say 50/50 chance of either.





What she said
__________________
niquejim is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:26 AM   #4
beds
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 47
Default

I have bottled with Champagne yeast with success. I'm not sure if that's what you're after or not. It depends on the style and what you're going for, but a different yeast at bottling time can dry a beer out and give you neat bubbles.

__________________

1 hour from Port Huron

beds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:35 AM   #5
PseudoChef
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
PseudoChef's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West Chicago 'Burbs, IL
Posts: 3,423
Liked 102 Times on 75 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Do people even read posts anymore? He is crash cooling the initial fermentation before it is complete. Then, as the bottles are warmed back up, the remaining sugars would then be consumed to produce the fermentation.

In order for you to get an accurate grasp for this, you'll need to have a satellite fermentor, aka a small aliquot in a 1000ml flask or something. Stick this on a stirplate and you should have complete fermentation within 2-3 days. Then, you'll know where your yeast is going to stop. Plan to crash a couple of gravity points above this to stop fermentation.

A problem I see you encountering is getting the original yeast out of the fermentation. Are you going to filter? Once two strains are introduced, it will be tough to really determine which yeast is the one giving the carbonation.

One vial is too much. You want to pitch about 1/4 of the vial for bottle carbonation.

__________________
PseudoChef is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:39 AM   #6
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,099
Liked 4479 Times on 3260 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoChef View Post
Do people even read posts anymore?
Um. Yeah. I read the post. I was very concerned about the attenuation rate of the new yeast, whether or not it was crashed cooled before FG was reached. Some yeast strains might not do well being pitched into an already alcohol-rich environment, and that concern (and the attenuation rate of the new yeast) is what brought this to mind for me. What's with the snide comment? I answered as best as I knew how. I don't think there would be an easy, dependable way to do it. I said 50/50 chance of flat beer, or bottle bombs. I definitely haven't done the experiment, but don't appreciate the snarky comment.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:51 AM   #7
fastricky
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
fastricky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 834
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Hey y'all, I appreciate the passionate responses! :-) It's all good, pretty sure no one meant anyone any disrespect...

So... It's a wheat beer. It should be fully fermented after 2 weeks. At that point I'll crash cool it for a week. Then, yes, will add champagne yeast to add a different texture (hopefully).

So 1/4 vial is all it'll take, eh?

__________________
fastricky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:57 AM   #8
Parker36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lesotho
Posts: 4,775
Liked 22 Times on 20 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I'm not so sure this will work. In theory, it sounds ok - use a higher attenuating yeast as the bottling strain to consume "leftover" sugars from the original, lower attenuating primary strain. The problem I see (aside from what Yooper said about not knowing or being able to predict exact attenuations) is that if you introduce new yeast to an environment that is already low in sugars, with next to no oxygen, and a significant alcohol content, you may even shock the yeast to some extent where it is not attenuating as well as you would have expected. When working with such slim margins of error, I wouldn't mess with it unless you are willing to re-bottle (or if you plan on kegging and priming, in which case this would be a good experiment)

__________________
Parker36 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 12:58 AM   #9
mkade
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 192
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I do not recommend this.

__________________
mkade is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2009, 01:04 AM   #10
PseudoChef
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
PseudoChef's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West Chicago 'Burbs, IL
Posts: 3,423
Liked 102 Times on 75 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Yooper, I apologize for the snarky remark.

However, plenty of breweries do this. Russian River, some Belgian breweries, and lots of German breweries did (do?) this (gyle-conditioning) to conform to the Reinheitsgebot. It's not like it's total taboo or anything.

Also, Mike Mraz's interview on The Sunday session covers this where he bottle conditioned with 4 different types of yeast, showing that it does change flavor profiles.

__________________

Last edited by PseudoChef; 04-15-2009 at 01:11 AM.
PseudoChef is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
On priming sugar and Bottling Tech. KPatrick Bottling/Kegging 10 11-12-2012 03:46 AM
Priming sugar, bottling space... voberoi Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 10-08-2009 03:01 AM
Question about priming sugar and bottling mioduz Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 16 01-16-2009 08:23 PM
Adding priming sugar if not bottling.... schismatic General Techniques 15 10-28-2006 04:33 PM
Bottling Gingerbread Ale - Priming Sugar? Wheat King Bottling/Kegging 2 10-18-2006 11:56 PM