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Old 06-03-2009, 12:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by beerkrump View Post
-1 for high school chemistry

Try 2 H2O2 --> 2 H2O + O2.
Thank you! I learned in high school that unbalanced equations make angels and puppies cry.

H2O2 = very poor acid (i.e. doesn't release H+)
H2O2 = strong oxidizer. Can't be purchased over-the-counter above ~5% because strong oxidizing agents can be explosive (see IowaHarry's comment).

In the world of biology, H2O2 is known as a "reactive oxygen species". It likes to form a free radical intermediate which wreak havoc in the cell. That means that it has a high degree of reactivity with organic molecules (which by the way, is why it is used as an antiseptic; it kill micro-organisms that may be in the vicinity of tissue damage).

In the brewery, this means that H2O2 will kill yeast, and react with other organic molecules in the wort to potentially create off flavors. Because I know there is probably someone out there that will try it, this does not mean that that it won't oxygenate the wort, and it won't ferment.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by flaminpi3 View Post
Speaking of high school chemistry, I'm pretty sure hydrogen peroxide doesn't break down into O2 and H20 for sh*ts and giggles, it's going to need a catalyst and I don't think anything in beer qualifies. Plus, has anyone ever mouthwashed with H2O2, it tastes f**king disgusting. HOW IS THIS BEING DISCUSSED AS A POSSIBLITLY?!?!...sip...sip...okay, sorry about that.

Oh and then there's this:

Ingestion:
Large oral doses may cause irritation and blistering to the mouth, throat, and abdomen. May also cause abdominal pain, vomiting, and diarrhea.
Peroxide *will* break down spontaneously. Low pH stabilizes it, which is why they add a little phosphoric acid for consumer stuff. It will break down faster at alkaline pH; wort is acidic so it won't break down very fast. But it *will* break down. If you ever find an old bottle of drugstore stuff, you may notice it doesn't fizz anymore because it decomposed on the shelf.

The free radicals created by decomposition will react with anything available including proteins and sugars. The resulting compounds may or may not taste nasty.

The danger of household peroxide is pretty low, but 50% is strong enough to cause spontaneous combustion, explosions, and can be used as a low-grade rocket fuel (by itself, I believe). I worked at a place that used it and we were told to remove leather boots or gloves if we spilled the liquid onto them, and to do it quick before they caught fire with you inside.

However, if you read product safety information or MSDS's, anything can kill you. You'd probably have to *try* to burn yourself with 3% peroxide. The MSDS for water includes the instruction to flush with water if you get any water in your eyes.

As an aside, Oxyclean/One-step is related to hydrogen peroxide (sodium peroxycarbonate). Don't use that to oxygenate either.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:29 AM   #13
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might be worth while to put a very very small amount in a very small amount of wort pre-ferment, let it sit awhile and taste it. See if it induced off flavors right from the start.

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Old 06-03-2009, 03:45 AM   #14
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FWIW, with a proper pitching rate, aeration isn't even necessary. Make BIG starters or use plenty of dry yeast, and forgo all this nonsense.

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Old 06-03-2009, 04:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage View Post
FWIW, with a proper pitching rate, aeration isn't even necessary. Make BIG starters or use plenty of dry yeast, and forgo all this nonsense.

Ya know somethings just aint broke so why try to fix it

Shake it or if thats to much work(it is a pain and frankly dangerous with glass)
Use a piece of racking cane melt a hole or two in it with a fine needle and put it inline of your hose(there is a venturi thread around here somewhere lookit up) just make sure the venturi is lower then the pot your racking from and it does a great job of sucking in air and mixing it up (or if thats just to simple and cheap...) inject 02 with a pump or bottle..

Or like Yuri said pitch enough yeast and you dont have to worry anyways....
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:23 PM   #16
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Just a couple of things...

Do people not check their facts before they spout science? I've got a BS in chemistry and still check before I put anything out there.

jds - you also work under the assumption that the wort is pure H2O and that it is starting at 0 ppm O2, but that's just me being anal.

Most importantly, why would you put something in your carefully crafted brew that comes out of your medicine cabinet with a warning against consumption. What ever happened to the Reinheitsgebot? But then again, a Vick's 44 porter, hmmmmm....

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Old 06-03-2009, 02:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
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jds - you also work under the assumption that the wort is pure H2O and that it is starting at 0 ppm O2, but that's just me being anal.
Correct. It was an unstated assumption. I think that the real hole in the calculation is the assumption of 100% efficiency in converting liberated O2 to dissolved O2. I doubt that would be the case, and I haven't looked for any references on what efficiency could be expected.

It's a pie-in-the-sky calculation anyhow. I, for one, will continue aerating using a venturi in my transfer hose, and stirplating starters.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:07 AM   #18
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I think you were pretty safe to assume that wort has close to 0 ppm O2 post boil. The high temperature and turbidity of the steam bubbling through it would tend to knock out any dissolved gasses.

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Old 06-04-2009, 06:20 AM   #19
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I don't want it in my beer! That doesn't sound good to me at all...
Yuri is right, it not really necessary. In this video by BobbyM the unaerated batches do better compared to their aerated counterparts.

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Old 06-04-2009, 02:32 PM   #20
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Considering a very dilute solution can strip the color from hair, I hate to think what it would do to wort.

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