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Old 09-13-2011, 02:41 PM   #21
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I think it is a bit of six to one, half dozen to another. It probably has the most to do with contact time and temperature. As long as it is not too hot, you will get better extraction of the hop aroma compounds with the higher temp, and the longer time will allow for more complete extraction. You will also get some flavor and bitterness with the extra time, which should be adjusted for in any earlier hop additions. You will not get the flavor and bitterness with the quick chill. Whatever works best for your system.

I think the best aroma comes from dry hopping. It is cooler, so it is slower, but the contact time is much longer. I've taken to upping my flavor additions, moving them away from later additions and rely more (but not exclusively) on dry hopping for aroma. One drawback though is I think the aroma from dry hopping might not last as long as your beer ages - so drink it fresh!

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Old 09-13-2011, 03:07 PM   #22
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FWIW - Sierra Nevada, for SNPA, dumps their hops in after flameout, and lets it steep for a while before cooling. Apparantly, they used to use a hopback, but went to this method because it was simply easier to brew this way, and the results were similar. I learned this in the excellent book, "Using Hops", by Mark Garetz - which I've owned since I started brewing in the mid-nineties.

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Old 10-19-2011, 12:56 PM   #23
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Soooo.... did the brew yesterday.

10# pilsner
8# gambrinus "esb" malt (i couldn't get my hands on any vienna)
1# carafoam
.5# honey malt
mash @ 154
90 minute boil

.8oz magnum @12.5%

When it was chilling time i split the beer into 2 pots and added .7oz saphir to each, immediately chilling the first 5 gallons and letting the other 5 sit there while the first batch chilled. Each bucket received a re-hydrated pack of S-05 and they're now fermenting away happily.

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Old 10-19-2011, 01:19 PM   #24
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Personally I find that the flameout and late additions (in my system) have limited returns. I recently made an ale with an entire pound of cascade at 3 minutes left in the boil (10 gallon batch) and I found the aroma to be underwhelming considering that the entire 10 gallons of wort was saturated with whole leaf hops and I chilled it to 60 degrees in 20 minutes after FO. I use a heavy hand on the 30-10 minute additions for my hop flavor and use a big dose of dry for my aroma.

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Old 10-21-2011, 04:20 PM   #25
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FWIW here's what I have been doing. At flameout, turn on the chiller and within about 3-4 minutes I'm down to 180. I stop chilling, add in my 'flameout' hops and let steep for 10 minutes, and then resume chilling, which takes another 15-18 minutes.
I have not done any sort of side-by-side comparison with other methods, but I can say that my beers (all IPAs) have lots of hop flavor and aroma, and people love them.
For 10 gallon batches, I'm using* about 1.5 oz of hops at 15, 10, 5, and 0 (as described above) minutes, and dry hopping in the keg with an ounce of so of hops. Generally I'm using some combo (not all at the same time) of Centennial, Amarillo, Cascade, Willamette, and small amounts of Citra. I also FWH, and I typically bitter with Chinook or Columbus.
* With the apparent shortage / higher cost of hops this year, I'm going to back these amounts down somewhat.

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Old 10-22-2011, 01:08 PM   #26
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I would be interested to see the results of the experiment!

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Old 11-06-2011, 03:31 PM   #27
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UPDATE!

I bottled these over the last couple of days. I've been labeling and referring to these beers in my notes as insta-chill and delay-o-chill, and judging by the smells and tastes of the young, flat and room temperature beer, the delay-o-chill certainly has a more potent hop character. I don't know that the 2 beers have the same kind of hop character though; it seemed like the insta-chill's hops tasted "brighter" but much weaker while the delay-o-chill had a deeper kind of hoppy quality. Too soon to tell really, I didn't taste them side by side, but the difference was enough to declare the delay-o-chill hoppier. You can really tell the difference in the aroma too.

Now with that said, these beers are real young and green who knows what they'll taste like when they're all carbed up and conditioned. We'll see!

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Old 11-06-2011, 10:49 PM   #28
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Awesome, looking forward to the final verdict!

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Old 11-07-2011, 10:54 AM   #29
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Great thread!

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Old 11-07-2011, 02:10 PM   #30
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+1. I just got my whirlpool recirculation working yesterday, (after a THIRD attempt...first two didn't even spin the wort!), and I gave about a 5 min steep before turning on the chill water... Be interested to see how long I should potentially go.

(3 oz horizion at 20 min, 4 oz cluster at 5 min, 5 oz cascade at 0 min, whirlpool for 5 min, then chill was my method on a 10 gal, 1.055 pale ale. If I remember, I'll report back in a month on how it did!)

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