Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Hoppy water, meet grain water.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #1
Marlowe
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Likes Given: 1

Default Hoppy water, meet grain water.

Hey everyone, ive been secretly reading all the threads but now ive finally made an account just to throw this in your brew pot.. Ive been wanting to start AG brewing for a while so im gathering supplies.. I already had a 5 gallon glass carboy and a friend picked another up for me at an auction for a dollar haha I also have a Home Depot 5g mash tun almost fully converted. Anyways, I only have a ss stock pot thats about 3.75 gallons to the brim (and plan to get bigger when budget allows) but I want to try a 5 gallon AG batch with what I have right now. Every way I could imagine it, id still need to be able to boil the whole 5 gallons and would just need a bigger pot. BUT, and heres where I dont want to offend anyone, what if I were to essentially make 2 seperate brews.. one 2 gallon hop brew with 5 gallon batch's worth of hops.. normal 1hr boil.. and then one 3 gallon grain brew with, again, 5 gallon batch's worth of grains.. normal 1hr boil. And then just what it sounds like, marry them together in the fermenter. I figured id put the hoppy water in first then id have time to heat up sparge water in my only stock pot. What do you think? Would the grain water be too thick? Do the hops REALLY NEED to boil WITH the grains? Ive just never seen this done so oddly before but maybe someone out there has.. If so, maybe some advice? And I will do this out of pure curiosity, so dont bother with, "just try it" this is more of a pregame pep talk. I need your wisdom HBT!

__________________
Marlowe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:19 AM   #2
BobbiLynn
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,951
Liked 791 Times on 539 Posts
Likes Given: 389

Default

Not exactly as you are describing(and btw, there is always the partial boil option) but I've done that and split the 5 gallon batch into half/half because I had to brew indoors and my stove won't handle a larger pot. But I did a 2.5 gallon batch, then another, using half the ingredients in each. Took forever but got the job done.

Looking forward to hearing more comments about a split batch and how to best go about it if that is your only option at the time.

__________________
BobbiLynn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:29 AM   #3
BobbiLynn
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,951
Liked 791 Times on 539 Posts
Likes Given: 389

Default

Also, a 5 gallon batch will not fit in a 5 gallon carboy. Carboy will have to be at least 6.5 gallons, made for a 5 gallon batch. You need room on top for fermentation to do it's thing.

__________________
BobbiLynn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:38 AM   #4
IslandLizard
Progressive Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IslandLizard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,812
Liked 325 Times on 292 Posts
Likes Given: 1025

Default

I think you need to boil your hops in actual wort (not plain water) to get good hop utilization. There maybe some other reasons to boil your hops in wort instead of plain water. Those are chemistry and pH related.

First, you don't boil your grain, it gets mashed (and sparged) and the wort drains off.

Take your first wort runnings and boil that with the hops. At the same time you can boil the rest of your first runnings and the sparges in a 2nd and 3rd pot. You actually need more than 5 gallons of collected wort in total since there is significant boil off, about a gallon or more per hour. You can always keep topping up with remaining wort from the sparges. You want to end up with 5-5.5 gallons of wort at the end of your boil.

As long as you're not intending to use large amounts of hops (4+ oz) in your 2 gallon pot I think you're gonna be OK. You can always split the hops over your other boiling vessels. Total hop amount stays the same.

Let us know how it works out.

__________________
Preparing: Framboise Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #3 | Tank 7 Saison Clone | Fresh Squeezed IPA | Venturing into some Sours, finally...
Fermenting:
Dry hopping:
Barrel Aging: Old Treacle Mine ==> Flanders
On tap: 2.3'd | ESB | Belgian Wit {1st place @ FSH Guild Wheat Beer Comp.} | Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale
Kicked: Sketchy Bastard | Black Butte Porter Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #2 | Citra Wheat Saison | Rosemary Wheat Saison | Great Lakes Christmas Ale Clone | Caramel Amber Ale
IslandLizard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:47 AM   #5
IslandLizard
Progressive Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IslandLizard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,812
Liked 325 Times on 292 Posts
Likes Given: 1025

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbiLynn View Post
Also, a 5 gallon batch will not fit in a 5 gallon carboy. Carboy will have to be at least 6.5 gallons, made for a 5 gallon batch. You need room on top for fermentation to do it's thing.
Excellent point!

You can always brew a smaller amount to better fit your fermentor size. Just scale down proportionally.

You need to chill your wort to your yeast pitching temperature before you pour it in the fermentor/carboy. Don't pour hot wort in a glass carboy, it will crack.
__________________
Preparing: Framboise Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #3 | Tank 7 Saison Clone | Fresh Squeezed IPA | Venturing into some Sours, finally...
Fermenting:
Dry hopping:
Barrel Aging: Old Treacle Mine ==> Flanders
On tap: 2.3'd | ESB | Belgian Wit {1st place @ FSH Guild Wheat Beer Comp.} | Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale
Kicked: Sketchy Bastard | Black Butte Porter Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #2 | Citra Wheat Saison | Rosemary Wheat Saison | Great Lakes Christmas Ale Clone | Caramel Amber Ale
IslandLizard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 05:46 PM   #6
Marlowe
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Likes Given: 1

Default

Sorry I got ahead of myself but, but yes I know it wont be a full 5 gallons I was anticipating more around the 4ish mark so it would give me enough headspace in my carboy. and I would not boil grains or dump boiling water in glass. I know what im doing for the most part. Ive done plenty of extract brews and understand the basics of all grain. But ive never heard of boiling the hops separately from the WORT. I know it sounds like its going against the "rules," but does anybody know why? Chemically speaking? Thank you to the others that have replied already, so speedy! My next smallest pot that I own besides the 3.75gal is a mere 2qt. Until I get some bigger outdoor equipment.

__________________
Marlowe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #7
Johnnyhitch1
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 31 reviews
 
Johnnyhitch1's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SiX-ThReE-OnE, NY
Posts: 2,008
Liked 218 Times on 182 Posts
Likes Given: 3306

Default

Why not brew a 2.5gal batch??

Diluting Hoppy water with sweet syrup water don't sound good...although drinkable!

__________________
^~~ "Like" it, Ill Give you beer ~~^
(({Brewing for the Movement Within}))

Primary: Kicking Cans DIPA, ECY20 Golden sour.
Kegged: Conan the Brown, OBS (Oatmeal brett stout)
Aging: Flanders Red w/ ECY02, All out Brett.
BOTTLES:

Cider: Grapfelwine, Apfelwine, Cranfelwine, Applejack
Beer: NZ Brett (BD:9/16/12)
Mead: Blueberry-lemon, Raspberry-Lime, Habenero, POM, Traditional.
Cellar: Maple Whiskey Barrel Stout, ST Pumking Clone
Johnnyhitch1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #8
Marlowe
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
Why not brew a 2.5gal batch??

Diluting Hoppy water with sweet syrup water don't sound good...although drinkable!
I guess I didnt wanna do a 2.5gal batch because of all the extra headspace in the carboy. Maybe it wouldnt matter that much.. hmm. Or maybe I need to do more research on the partial technique..
__________________
Marlowe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 08:14 PM   #9
BPS531
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

1. You can boil hops in water, and make bitter, hoppy water (search hop teas) but to get good alpha acid utilization, you are still going to need to boil it for a significant amount of time.
2. Poly phenols in the hops bond with proteins in the wort and improve coagulation, giving you better hot and cold break and improving beer clarity. So, even if you still wanted to try your idea, you should add some hops to the wort boil.

If you don't want to do a small batch because of head space, do two. Production breweries do this all the time if their fermenters are bigger than their boil kettles. Brew one batch, cool, transfer and then pit h your yeast. You can add the next batch right on top, after it has cooled.

__________________
BPS531 is offline
Marlowe Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2013, 09:37 PM   #10
Marlowe
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPS531 View Post
2. Poly phenols in the hops bond with proteins in the wort and improve coagulation, giving you better hot and cold break and improving beer clarity. So, even if you still wanted to try your idea, you should add some hops to the wort boil.
There we go! Thats what im lookin for. Assuming you're correct, thats the kind of stuff I need to know. +1 BPS531
Now im thinkin again.. originally I was thinking that the bitter/aroma filled hop water would balance out the sweet wort in a way it normally does, now I guess I could bitter the wort but not do a finishing hop stage.. I could have 2 gallons of aromatic hop tea (boiled only for 15 min or so) in the fermenter and add the "bitter" wort to that. Haha Im more interested in the weirdness factor than anything.
__________________
Marlowe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mash - Water to grain or grain to water? el_horno General Techniques 14 01-17-2013 05:22 PM
using RO water + all grain = some kind of water profile? dismal All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 22 03-01-2011 03:46 PM
Mash-In: water to grain or grain to water? sergetania All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 19 02-10-2010 01:56 PM
Good water profile for a hoppy amber. jlpred55 Brew Science 6 01-23-2010 01:38 AM
Good Grain Absorption Factor and Water/Grain Ratio? Mr. Mojo Rising All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 8 03-13-2008 05:28 PM