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Old 11-25-2009, 07:07 AM   #231
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one drawback to freezing is to maintain constant temp.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:21 PM   #232
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Randar-

Was the infection on your plate present in the vial? Is there any way to tell. I am hopefully entering the yeast management world after Christmas and am trying to get a handle on all this stuff.

I love these threads.
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:23 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar View Post
Oh, and isn't this basically the #1 objective here to ensure we continue to produce predictable yeast behavior and characteristics? Might have to work a little harder to build up your starter slowly, but I think keeping the purity intact is priority #1.
And how are you going to determine whether that colony you picked doesn't have any mutations from the common strain? I would think you're more likely to get results similar to the original yeast if you save as much as possible.


Guess my point is, if you're saving 100 million cells, mutations in one isn't a big deal.

Last edited by Synovia; 11-25-2009 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:03 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
, if you're saving 100 million cells, mutations in one isn't a big deal.
Unless that mutation becomes the dominant strain in the culture, making it impossible to isolate, which you;re essentially taking the same chance on.

According to the resident expert, in the >millions of possible genetic mutations, it's likely only a handful could/would affect the finished product, while most will actually trigger apoptosis (programmed cell death). Those that survive often show visible colony differences in color, shape, growth rate, etc. Therefore, the probability is such that any surviving mutation that also affects growth/regulation/flavor carries an extremely remote probability.

Infection is the thing to be careful of.

As for the question about the infection on the plate in the picture, I believe this likely came from the initial starter lag time of using an older WLP001 vial (straight from White Labs, so I don't think the infection was present prior to my opening the vial) and perhaps some laziness in my sterilization (sample was taken from slow starting culture). But, I grew it out, decanted, and regrew and it has been fine and showed no signs of infection in the slurry prior to pitching and the fermenting batch smells spot-on. You could certainly streak right from yeast bank vial to a plate to determine presence of infection.

Last edited by Randar; 11-25-2009 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #235
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one drawback to freezing is to maintain constant temp.
Yes, most home freezers are auto-defrost so you have to take steps to keep temps somewhat regulated. Using a small styrofoam cooler (best if you can find one of the thick biological grade ones) with some gel-ice packs will keep things frozen and in good condition even through defrost cycles, although you'll still be at risk if you have any sort of extended power outage. I thinkt he ease of doing this at home is the key, and even in my case where I have access to a lot of equipment and whatnot, the though of keeping my samples in a freezer 35 min from home in some shared minus-80 C freezer is not as appealing as always having control and access to it.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:42 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordantly View Post
one drawback to freezing is to maintain constant temp.
It's actually not a big deal:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/guide-making-frozen-yeast-bank-35891/#post351738

Last edited by FlyGuy; 11-25-2009 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:18 PM   #237
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Hi Randar

Yeah, I definitely did. I just looked this week and some are froze, but others are not. My freezer temp gauge is well into the sub zero range. I'm about to make Jamil's robust porter using the pacman so I'll know a couple days in advance if I still have good a good viable yeast bank.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:05 PM   #238
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Thanks for the inspiring thread!

I just tried using a 25ML vial of Wyeast 1056 that I froze a week or so ago using the procedure in the OP. I had it 25% full of glycerin and topped it off with fresh yeast slurry from a 1st gen starter.

I was only 48 hours from brew day so I thought I'd give it a shot and had US-05 dry yeast on standby just in case it didn't work out.

I took the vial out of the cooler packed with ice packs in the freezer and let it warm up on the counter for a few hours. I pitched into a 625ML starter made with 1 gram DME per 10ML of water plus a pinch of yeast nutrient prepared in pressure cooker onto the stir plate. Room temp was in the mid 60s.

Next morning there appeared to be a krausen ring so I put 1200ML more starter wort into the flask for a total of 1800ML. I let that sit on the stir plate for 24 hours and I crash cooled in the fridge for 12 hours.

There are very few to almost no yeast at the bottom. Even after 36 hours there is no additional matter besides some trub from the starters. I hydrometer tested a sample of this and it was at 1.047. Looks like I didn't get any attenuation.

What do you think went wrong? Is there anything glaring in what I posted above? I'm guessing my initial starter was too big or that particular vial didn't have enough viable yeast to get going. I'm going to try another vial in a 250ML starter on the stir plate and see how that goes.

Last edited by TristanL; 12-28-2009 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:00 AM   #239
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I have a tangential question.

I have been following this method for making my yeast bank but I was wondering about storing wort as well.

Right now I make my starters using dme but I was wondering if anyone had tried making some wort from all grain and then boiling it to sterilize and then tried storing/freezing it in mason jars or something similar that had been sterilized in a pressure cooker.

I realize that this isn't a huge issue and that dme isn't that expensive.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:07 PM   #240
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Groosh, I really recommend this article. It's been working really well on my regular starters. Using these with the frozen yeast, as you can see above, I'm still working out the details

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/starter-made-easy-pressure-cooking-your-starter-wort-ahead-time
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