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Old 03-04-2008, 01:43 PM   #1
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Default Gelatin in Lager Primary Prior to Keg...

The existing situation: Pilsner, fermented @ 54f for 2 weeks, currently d-resting in primary in the warmroom.

The plan: Bring it down to the basement (58f ambient), add gelatin finings to primary, leave @ 58f for another 2 weeks. Rack to keg, lager @40f in chest freezer until I'm ready to tap it.

What say ye? I'm force-carbing and serving kegs from my lagerator right now, so I don't have room for a carboy in there. I'd like to get it as clear as possible before going into the keg, hence the gelatin. Will 2 weeks @ 58f with gelatin in the primary do anything?
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:07 PM   #2
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I've never had to use finings in my beers, but lagers especially. Why not get your primary down to 35F or so for a couple days just prior to racking to keg. Also, make sure your dip tube isn't litereally touching the bottom of the keg. I like a 3/8" gap or so to avoid sucking up any sediment that does form.

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Old 03-04-2008, 02:09 PM   #3
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Yeah, I suppose I could evacuate the kegs from the lagerator for a couple days...

Do you just cut the dip tube with a hacksaw, or what? I'm not sure what my gaps look like, but I was thinking about that very same mod if necessary.

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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:03 AM   #4
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Hack saw works fine, then just debur with some sandpaper or a cone shaped grinder on the dremel if you're really fancy about it.

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Old 03-05-2008, 03:59 AM   #5
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I use gelatin but crash cool it to 33-34F and leave for 4-5 days. I get crystal clear beer that way and the cold break is dropped out as well.

For the dip tube the owner of my LHBS suggested using a short U shaped piece of tubing on the end of the dip tube. It saves you from having to cut the tube and leaves you with the flexibility of draining the keg from the bottom or not.

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Old 03-05-2008, 10:21 AM   #6
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In my humble opinion, you really shouldn't do that. The small bit of yeast still in suspension works to clean up some fermentation byproducts that will clean the taste a bit more.
It would be way better if you finned after secondary/lagering.

As well the colder temps will precipatate a lot of yeast in secondary and you may not need to fine it at all.

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Old 03-05-2008, 02:29 PM   #7
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That's a good point, the lagering phase does need yeast. Cutting the dip tube is a good way to lager in the keg and still have the yeast fall out low enough not to cause haze problems later when you start dispensing.

Every time someone suggests cutting the dip tube a bit, someone offers another way of getting the same thing without cutting. I find it odd. The first suggestion is usually to bend the dip tube so the end raises up over the bottom. I tried putting even a gentle bend into mine and couldn't get it in the post opening. I couldn't imagine it working if I bent it enough. Maybe the clearence is different on ball locks.

The second one about using a U shaped tube... well if you had enough room to have a piece of tubing on the bottom, you wouldn't need to cut. Maybe it's different with ball locks, but pinlock dip tubes seem to TOUCH the bottom literally. I took about 1/4" off of each of mine and it leaves probably 4-6 oz of beer in the bottom when the keg kicks. Why would I ever regret cutting them? We're not talking about taking an inch off.

Back to the OP's topic though, I'd at least bring the primary down to lager temps for a couple days in primary, THEN rack to the keg. It will help get some of the larger sediment to crash out to minimize what you have to deal with in the keg.

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Old 03-05-2008, 02:48 PM   #8
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But how much work is the yeast really doing at 38-40ºf? I figured most of the clean-up would take place right now, during the diacetyl rest and subsequent slow cooling.

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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
But how much work is the yeast really doing at 38-40ºf? I figured most of the clean-up would take place right now, during the diacetyl rest and subsequent slow cooling.
I concur that it would be better for you to rack to a keg with shortened dip tube, place that into the fridge and carbonate it while it is in there, then rack to the serving keg or serve from that keg. I like to rack to a serving keg b/c I don't want to worry about moving it. If you still want to use Gelatin, add it to the lagering keg 1 wk before racking.

The boo boo and Bobby are correct in that yeast is benefical for lagering. Though it doesn't have as much to do as it would if you would have gone to lagering with a significant amount of fermentable sugars left, it can't hurt to have some in there. And I also wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the beer on the primary yeast cake for that long.

Kai
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
I concur that it would be better for you to rack to a keg with shortened dip tube, place that into the fridge and carbonate it while it is in there, then rack to the serving keg or serve from that keg. I like to rack to a serving keg b/c I don't want to worry about moving it. If you still want to use Gelatin, add it to the lagering keg 1 wk before racking.

The boo boo and Bobby are correct in that yeast is benefical for lagering. Though it doesn't have as much to do as it would if you would have gone to lagering with a significant amount of fermentable sugars left, it can't hurt to have some in there. And I also wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the beer on the primary yeast cake for that long.

Kai
It's been on primary for about 2.5 weeks as of right now (it took way too long to finish, because that stupid W34/70 strain wouldn't do much of anything until I warmed it up to 60f). It's D-resting at 70f as we speak, and I'll cool it down starting tonight. I doubt I'll worry about cutting the dip tube, I'll probably just rack to a keg, lager in that for 6 weeks or so (with gelatin during the final 2), then rack to another one to force-carb and serve in.

Thanks for all the advice, guys.
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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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