Gelatin-Bottle Conditioning

Hi all-

I'm about ready to rack my Oktoberfest Ale into the secondary. WAs gonna add the Gelatin for a clarifying agent.

My question, does the gelatin strip all of the yeast out, so that bottle fermentation is tough?

I'm interested in hearing people's opinions who still bottle condition.

No, it doesn't strip all the yeast out.

However, you really s hould get your brew cold first then add the gelatin for at least overnight. It should be cold the entire time.

Once you rack off the gelatin just do as you normally would for the bottle.

I was thinking (due to time constraints) that I would rack into the secondary, add the gelatin and leave it sit for a week before bottling....is this ok?

No, that's not a good idea. Have you ever made Jell-O at room temp? It stays in the liquid form.

Gelatin REQUIRES cold to gel and settles out faster.

I don't have the ability to keep the beer cold now. What would you reccommend, since I forgot the irish moss additive at the end of my boil?

i have this same problem with my irish red. i want to add the gelatin, but i also want to wash the yeast. i'm afraid i'm just going to skip the gelatin this time and have a cloudier beer. no big deal.

First off, I dunno what hb99 is getting at. Nothing in any of the directions for using gelatin says anything about keeping it cold. I just used it for the first time today. Wouldn't they say it on the product page or on the bottle? Hmm. Not sure now.

Secondly, if you don't wanna use gelatin, you can go with KC Superkleer. Unless you or anyone who drinks your beer is allergic to shellfish.

The gelatin won't be ineffective, but it won't be as effective. It works by attracting other proteins until they stick together in a larger (but still very small) glob of protein that sinks a lot faster. That whole thing happens better at colder temperatures.

You can give the gelatin a try. It's cheap, it won't hurt anything, and it may help in the long run. Unless you want to spend some more money on more effective fining agents, the best thing you can do is just wait on the beer to clear. It will clear in the bottle.

The worst case scenario is that your beer isn't all that clear. Most folks don't keep homebrew around long enough for problems with stability. Next time, remember the Irish moss, that's all. In the meantime, enjoy what you have.


TL

I would actually argue that the best way is to let it set at room temperature with the gelatin for a couple of days for the proteins to bind to the gelatin (another protein by the way). This reaction will occur much better at warmer temperatures. You don't want the gelatin to gel up. If that happens than you loose a whole lot of potential sites to bind the the proteins you want to pull down. Once you've allowed the binding to occur, then cool it off to get the clumps to settle out.

Evan! said:

First off, I dunno what hb99 is getting at. Nothing in any of the directions for using gelatin says anything about keeping it cold. I just used it for the first time today. Wouldn't they say it on the product page or on the bottle? Hmm. Not sure now...

Secondly, if you don't wanna use gelatin, you can go with KC Superkleer. Unless you or anyone who drinks your beer is allergic to shellfish.

Click to expand...

Well, Evan, it wouldn't be the first time someone didn't understand me.

My point was you can't make FIRM gelatin (Jell-O or Jello-O Shots) at room temp. It requires the product to be cold in order to gel/solidify. It's simple physics.

If you prefer you can use Polyclar which is very tiny plastic (PVC) beads to clear your brew.

I red pjj2ba's post (above), but can neither concur or nonconcur with either way. I just do mine cold and it's clear overnight.

If you don't have any way to get your brew cold then by all means try it at room temps.

If that doesn't work try a ceramic mug.

I was wondering if this would happen if I add Gelatin or KC Supercleer at room temps.....when I bottle and eventually chill the beer, would the chill haze be more of a factor because I didn't crash the secondary first?

Sorry for all the follow-up Q's. I took a reading last night and it's the 2nd day the SG is unchanged. I actually drank the beer in the hydometer tube and it was really, REALLY good. That's why I'm trying so hard to get some clarity.....you know, to impress the friends.

willie_okt said:

I was wondering if this would happen if I add Gelatin or KC Supercleer at room temps.....when I bottle and eventually chill the beer, would the chill haze be more of a factor because I didn't crash the secondary first?

Sorry for all the follow-up Q's. I took a reading last night and it's the 2nd day the SG is unchanged. I actually drank the beer in the hydometer tube and it was really, REALLY good. That's why I'm trying so hard to get some clarity.....you know, to impress the friends.

Click to expand...

USe the gelatin in the secondary and this is what your beer looks like:



I know two things:

A) Gelatin does not require cold to do it's thing in the secondary. I don't know the specifics, but it is the positive electrial charge that gelatin posseses that causes particulants and proteins to bind and fall...and hs nothing to do with the cold "gelling" effect.

2) If you use gelatin, prepare for a substantially longer bottle conditioning time. I did an experiment a few weeks back by saving off a bottle as I racked to a keg, added a 1/4 tsp of corn sugar and set aside to condition at 70 degrees. At the 3 week mark, the beer had developed some yeast sediment, but when chilled and opened, had the kind of carbonation I would have expected at only 7-10 days.

I think another 2 weeks and it would have been fine.

This is a pic of the 2ndary carboys after only 24 hours with gelatin. Notice the reflection in the mirror and how clear this beer is.



~Add gelatin to the secondary.
~Prepare for a lengthy, 4-5 week bottle conditioning at 70-72 degrees.
~Prepare to have the bottles chilled for at least 10 days prior to serving so you can move past the chill haze phase.

I've always added the gelatin when I was bottling, or now kegging. Lack of Carbonation has not been an issue. Now I let the kegs sit for a week or so at room temp to carbonate and them move them to the fridge. I've got clear beer within a week.

BierMuncher is correct. Gelling is not important, and would actually decrease it's efficiency. The dissolved gelatin (collagen) has both positive and negative charges on it. These sites will attract other proteins - both other collagen molecules and the haze causing proteins too - just like the opposite poles of a magnet are attracted to one another. Actually, any molecule - or atom - will bind to the collagen. If you added salt, not that one would, it would also bind to the collagen and reduce its efficiency.

The net result is like the classic cartoon snowball rolling down the hill and getting bigger and bigger. Eventually you get enough proteins of all type binding to one another that the clump gets to be big enough to settle out. The clumping will definitely occour faster at warmer temperatures, but the drawback is that at warmer temperatures, the clump needs to be bigger to get it to settle out. That is why I like to have it be at room temp for a couple of days and then chill.

To clarify (pun somewhat intended), I like to add the gelatin at the same time I drop the temperature to crash. That has worked very well in the past.


TL

Whew! So let me summarize....What I am gathering is that if I transfer to the secondary on SAturday, add gelatin, leave at cellar temp and bottle in a week?

Give it 2-3 weeks to bottle condition and enjoy? chill haze shouldn't be much of a factor?

Yep, if everything works out right. If it doesn't all work out right in a couple weeks, it will in the end. Such is homebrewing!


TL

To further summarize, you can add it pretty much whenever you want as long as the bulk of the fermentation is done. Warm or cold, it will do the job. If you add it in secondary, the only caution is that it may slow down carbonation if you go the natural route. Add it at a time that is convenient for you. Everybody's system/set-up is different.