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Old 12-16-2011, 11:00 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by michaeltrego View Post
I too love FWH'ing with Magnum. Assuming those 4 oz. are your total supply, I might suggest:

0.5 oz. Magnum FWH
0.5 oz. Magnum 60 min
0.5 oz. Falconer's Flight 30 min
0.5 oz. Falconer's Flight 10 min
0.5 oz. Cascade 5 min
0.5 oz. Cascade 0 min
1.0 oz. Cascade Dry hop

If you could add another ounce of Falconer's split half between 0 min and Dry hop, that would be even better!

I recently did the following for a 68 IBU Red IPA that came out quite nice:

0.63 oz. Magnum 12.1% FWH
0.63 oz. Magnum 12.1% 60 min.
0.50 oz. Simcoe 12.2% 30 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade 5.4% 10 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade 5.4% 5 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade 5.4% 0 min.
0.50 oz. Simcoe 12.2% 0 min.
0.50 oz. Amarillo 7.5% 0 min.
1.00 oz. Amarillo 7.5% Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Cascade 5.4% Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Simcoe 12.2% Dry Hop
I think I might just try something like your first example, I am planning on brewing it tonight so no real chance for me to fine any more hops (at least that would work in this recipe) Thanks again, I'll try to remember to update this thread when the beer is ready
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:28 PM   #22
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I think I might just try something like your first example, I am planning on brewing it tonight so no real chance for me to fine any more hops (at least that would work in this recipe) Thanks again, I'll try to remember to update this thread when the beer is ready
Sounds good - have a great brew day!
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:01 PM   #23
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ive done some beers with just a fwh bittering addition and they taste like i added some late addition hops.
That's fascinating! I'll have to try it out.

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How is this going to benefit the beer beyond adding a few more IBUs from being in the wort for longer?
To me the biggest benefit is that you get all the bitterness, it just doesn't hit your palate like an avalanche of broken glass which is how I feel with some super-hoppy beers. This is more like the spiciness those peppers you get in some Chinese food where you only get a bit at first, but over the following few seconds it really grows on your tongue. Much more subtle but equally powerful in the long run
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:03 PM   #24
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Interesting... I wonder why this isn't done as standard practice. I will definitely be doing this with my next hoppy beer.

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Old 12-16-2011, 06:11 PM   #25
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That's fascinating! I'll have to try it out.



To me the biggest benefit is that you get all the bitterness, it just doesn't hit your palate like an avalanche of broken glass which is how I feel with some super-hoppy beers. This is more like the spiciness those peppers you get in some Chinese food where you only get a bit at first, but over the following few seconds it really grows on your tongue. Much more subtle but equally powerful in the long run
That's a really good description. It rounds off the harshness of the hops. Not that I don't like harshness now n again.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:21 PM   #26
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Interesting... I wonder why this isn't done as standard practice. I will definitely be doing this with my next hoppy beer.
I think it's a fairly recent discovery really. If you'd ask 100 brewers what adding hops to the first runnings would do, I think they would ALL tell you the final beer would just be more bitter. I can't wrap my head around why it behaves the way it does. Sure, if you extract the isomers at 170 degrees, you get less harsh flavors - the same can be said for coffee - but if you then go on to boil the bejeezus outta those isomers for the next hour, I'd think we'd be back to square one. All I can think of is that those compounds must be 'set' in some way when they are extracted at that temperature for a certain amount of time.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:50 PM   #27
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That's fascinating! I'll have to try it out.
Just to clarify...From my most recent experience, using 2 oz of williamette as fwh followed by a 60 min boil gives a smoother bitterness and similar hop flavor as if I had added maybe a 1/2 oz at 20 or 15. I wouldn't use it to replace the flavor additions if you want a lot of flavor, but I like the extra flavor you get with porters or hefeweizens with just a fwh bittering addition. I don't buy the idea of moving flavoring additions to fwh and ignoring the additional ibus that it will add. I've read that a lot. I've found that you can still overdo it pretty easily with bitterness. It may not be as biting a bitterness as without fwh, but it can still be too much.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:38 PM   #28
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I can't wrap my head around why it behaves the way it does.
Think of it like a sauce....
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:44 PM   #29
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[/QUOTE]but if you then go on to boil the bejeezus outta those isomers for the next hour, I'd think we'd be back to square one. All I can think of is that those compounds must be 'set' in some way when they are extracted at that temperature for a certain amount of time.[/QUOTE]

+1. Boiling can't reset every reaction that took place at 170F because the starting products are in a different chemical state than if you'd just thrown them into 212F wort. For a subset of whatever happens to hop oils and phytochemicals, the time spent at 170 produces an array of products that are not made at 212 and can't be undone by the boil.

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Old 12-17-2011, 03:46 PM   #30
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After thinking about this a lot, I would add one caveat: I think FWH produces a lingering, lasting bitterness, so if you're trying for a layering of flavors or sensations, that's something to keep in mind.

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