First wort hopping and mash hopping

**Dr_Deathweed** · 03-17-2008, 09:44 PM

A couple questions:
1) Both FWH and mash hopping are supposed to put more aroma in your final product if I am not mistaken, but with the low utilization and the potential no bittering with mash hopping, whats the point? Since FWH can be used for bittering as well wouldn't this be the better all around answer?

2) I have read in a couple places of the various results with FWH, notably better success with noble hops, less success with others. Can anyone verify this? For example: Say I have Summit and Sterling hops, are they both ok for FWH (depending on style) or should I limit FWH to the Summits.

**Dr_Deathweed** · 03-18-2008, 01:18 PM

Ok, this is partly a bump and partly to correct my previous brain fart. Niether Summit or Sterling are noble hops (I have no idea why I thought they were....

)

Anyways, any experience with using these with FWH?

Evan! · 03-18-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathweed

A couple questions:
1) Both FWH and mash hopping are supposed to put more aroma in your final product if I am not mistaken, but with the low utilization and the potential no bittering with mash hopping, whats the point? Since FWH can be used for bittering as well wouldn't this be the better all around answer?

The point is that MH adds a more subtle, integrated flavor to your final product. I use it for hop-centric beers like IPA's, or even for bitters. No, there's no AA utilization, but that's not really the point. I mean, you get almost no utilization with 1-minute additions, and zero with dry hopping, but nobody's worrying about that. You shouldn't be so concerned with utilization---just get some high-AA hops and use them for your FWH addition, and you'll get plenty of IBU's from a small amount of hops. And if you want a subtler, more integrated hop flavor, try mash hopping.

Quote:

2) I have read in a couple places of the various results with FWH, notably better success with noble hops, less success with others. Can anyone verify this? For example: Say I have Summit and Sterling hops, are they both ok for FWH (depending on style) or should I limit FWH to the Summits.

I FWH almost all my beers, because, well, why not? Unless you're doing a 90 minute boil and your bittering hops are only in for 60 mins, I'd say FWH is a no-brainer. I've had equal success with noble and non-noble varieties.

**pjj2ba** · 03-18-2008, 02:31 PM

Has anybody ever tried adding hops to a decoction? I guess I'm not sure what you would get. It wouldn't be boiled long enough to get much in the way of bitterness. I suppose any flavor derived would be lost when the whole wort was later boiled - or would it? As the decoction rests at saccharification would it behave as if FW Hopping and would some reactions occur during the heat up to boiling to create compounds that would not be lost during the full boil? Does anybody have any thoughts?

I just may try this. I'd like to squeeze in one more lager before my basement gets too warm. I want to do a Euro Pils with 20-25 IBUs. This would also be my first attempt at a decoction. I'd probably start at 122 F and pull the decoction to get it up to 149 F.

The question is how to figure out how much hops to add. I don't think I'd want to get all of my IBU's this way, but maybe half. I'm thinking I would like to shoot for half of my IBU's from a 60 min addition, no flavor hops, no aroma hops. The question being how to determine how much hops to add to the decoction. I guess I'm thinking I would just call it a FWH addition in ProMash even though it isn't and go with that. I know the higher the gravity, the poorer the bittering extraction, but would this be a concern for the decoction? Should I adjuct for this and add more hops to the decoction?

**Dr_Deathweed** · 03-18-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan!

The point is that MH adds a more subtle, integrated flavor to your final product. I use it for hop-centric beers like IPA's, or even for bitters. No, there's no AA utilization, but that's not really the point. I mean, you get almost no utilization with 1-minute additions, and zero with dry hopping, but nobody's worrying about that. You shouldn't be so concerned with utilization---just get some high-AA hops and use them for your FWH addition, and you'll get plenty of IBU's from a small amount of hops. And if you want a subtler, more integrated hop flavor, try mash hopping.

Thanks, that gets my question. My concern with utilization was more along the lines that if both FWH and Mash hopping provide a hop flavor, why not stick with FWH so you can get bittering use out of them too? (especially with hops the way they are today) If I get you right, mash hopping gives a better integrated flavor while FWH is supposed to leave some flavor and provide a smoother bittering.

I have also read somewhere of using the boil hops from one batch and throwing them in the mash of your next batch. Is this just something that someone decided to do because well, hey, why not? Or is there any justification behind this?