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Old 01-20-2013, 01:09 AM   #41
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Let's face it, IBU's are a guideline, not a rule. There are more variables than calculated or even measured IBU's when it comes to the perception of bitterness. I started this thread to try and get a handle on something I haven't tried, first wort hopping. Does it add more flavor or different flavors than can be achieved otherwise? Does it contribute to the total bitterness in a way that needs to be compensated for in the boil bittering charge? Is the flavor addition in place of the bitterness, or in addition to the bittering contribution? I wasn't really trying to get into who's "right and wrong" when it comes to any particular recipe, just to understand first wort hops and what they contribute to a brew. Other comments should go to other threads, thanks...

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Old 01-20-2013, 01:14 AM   #42
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Geez, who pissed in your Cheerios?

It seemed to be a very genial discussion on the issues you name, and nothing more.

But if you want scientific fact, and not discussion, then the simple answer is that FWH increases the total IBUs as measured by spectomometer. But the perception is something else.

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Old 01-20-2013, 01:19 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demus View Post
Let's face it, IBU's are a guideline, not a rule. There are more variables than calculated or even measured IBU's when it comes to the perception of bitterness. I started this thread to try and get a handle on something I haven't tried, first wort hopping. Does it add more flavor or different flavors than can be achieved otherwise? Does it contribute to the total bitterness in a way that needs to be compensated for in the boil bittering charge? Is the flavor addition in place of the bitterness, or in addition to the bittering contribution? I wasn't really trying to get into who's "right and wrong" when it comes to any particular recipe, just to understand first wort hops and what they contribute to a brew. Other comments should go to other threads, thanks...
Here's the answer you're looking for: "FWHs are complicated and there is no simple answer to any of the questions you asked."
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:53 PM   #44
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And what's funny is that just last night I was telling Bob that when we get down to Ohio again, that we have to get another growler of that! I LOVE that beer, and it's one of my favorite IPAs around.







I agree, not over harsh at all, one of the best IPAs out there. I am spoiled because I can drive 5 minutes to the grocery store to buy it in bottles, or 45 minutes to Fat Heads brewery!
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demus View Post
Let's face it, IBU's are a guideline, not a rule. There are more variables than calculated or even measured IBU's when it comes to the perception of bitterness. I started this thread to try and get a handle on something I haven't tried, first wort hopping. Does it add more flavor or different flavors than can be achieved otherwise? Does it contribute to the total bitterness in a way that needs to be compensated for in the boil bittering charge? Is the flavor addition in place of the bitterness, or in addition to the bittering contribution? I wasn't really trying to get into who's "right and wrong" when it comes to any particular recipe, just to understand first wort hops and what they contribute to a brew. Other comments should go to other threads, thanks...
Try it for yourself.............
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:29 AM   #46
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I shall indeed. Really looking forward to it. Thanks for all the great posts...

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Old 01-21-2013, 10:55 PM   #47
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I may be missing something, but what is the normal amount for a 5 gall batch? Should I just put it in Beer Smith?

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:41 AM   #48
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I may be missing something, but what is the normal amount for a 5 gall batch? Should I just put it in Beer Smith?
Beer smith and others can get you in the balpark for a style, but I think it's like trying to use a program to tell you how much hot sauce to put on your burrito. We can try and figure it out before hand, but it's all about personal taste at the endo of the day...
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #49
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I may be missing something, but what is the normal amount for a 5 gall batch? Should I just put it in Beer Smith?
Ive found something in the range of 1 oz for pales and 1.5 to 2 oz for ipas get you in he ballpark for bittering. Those are for mid to high alpha hops... 8 to 12 aau. I just tried 3 oz in a dipa along with an ounce of nugget at 30. That proved a bit much... which is hard to imagine with my taste. Could have been something else in my process or the variety of hops used, but I didnt deviate much from my standard process or hop varieties.

I say that now but the dipa is young and im still getting some "hop dust" from my keg hops. The harshness may drop off as this sits in the keg another week or two.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:46 PM   #50
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Brad Smith discusses first wort hopping here:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/11/19...eer-revisited/

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