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Houblon · 11-10-2010, 03:54 PM

Wayy too much going on in the malts, keep it simple.

Add sugar to the boil as the hop utilization is calculated based on the gravity of the wort, which includes sugar.

Been covered before>
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94139

Great quote from babalu87:

"IMNSHO feeding is something brought about by poor fermentation practices (IE improper yeast pitches/lack of aeration)"

JetSmooth · 11-10-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houblon

Wayy too much going on in the malts, keep it simple.

Add sugar to the boil as the hop utilization is calculated based on the gravity of the wort, which includes sugar.

Been covered before>
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94139

Great quote from babalu87:

"IMNSHO feeding is something brought about by poor fermentation practices (IE improper yeast pitches/lack of aeration)"

I still feed mine because I subscribe to the notion that the yeast will "opt" to break down the more complex sugars last, and may (I said "may") lose their ability to do so after a few generations of munching on simple sugars. In Brew Like a Monk, that is mentioned once and sort of dismissively, but until I see more data on that, it's a concern for me.

Plus, it gives me something to do with the beer while it's undergoing a long fermenting/conditioning period. Sorta like a pet.

permo · 11-10-2010, 04:16 PM

simple malt bill (pilsen and sugar primarily + special B or caramunich to color if needed...maybe oats or wheat to get crazy with it)

incremental sugar additions

good yeast managements

increase temperature after high krausen to encourage attenuation

Houblon · 11-10-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSmooth

I still feed mine because I subscribe to the notion that the yeast will "opt" to break down the more complex sugars last, and may (I said "may") lose their ability to do so after a few generations of munching on simple sugars. In Brew Like a Monk, that is mentioned once and sort of dismissively, but until I see more data on that, it's a concern for me..

I add to boil like every Belgian brewery I've visited does

JetSmooth · 11-10-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houblon

I add to boil like every Belgian brewery I've visited does

I'm sure that is how they do it. As a homebrewer, I don't try to emulate their techniques, just their product.

Houblon · 11-11-2010, 03:04 PM

If I may ask a few questions:

1 how do you calculate hop utilization then?
2 have you ever done a test yourself bewteen the two methods?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSmooth

<snip> but until I see more data on that, it's a concern for me..

Instead of waiting for data why not get real first hand data yourself?

2 batchs -
1 with sugar in boil
1 with sugar in fermentor
Have a group of friends over and see if anybody can taste the difference, Final gravity is easy enough to test.

Its odd people keep doing the same habits based on old practices when in this case its easy enough to test.
Just sayin

permo · 11-11-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houblon

If I may ask a few questions:

1 how do you calculate hop utilization then?
2 have you ever done a test yourself bewteen the two methods?

Instead of waiting for data why not get real first hand data yourself?

2 batchs -
1 with sugar in boil
1 with sugar in fermentor
Have a group of friends over and see if anybody can taste the difference, Final gravity is easy enough to test.

Its odd people keep doing the same habits based on old practices when in this case its easy enough to test.
Just sayin

I know for a fact that I get better attenuation when I add the sugar incrementally and raise the fermentation temp. One of my theories as that you have a healthier overall population of yeast as the initial ferment is less "powerfull" since the sugar isn't their so you have a nice modest gravity ferment and the chances of underpitching are reduced.

With the belgian strains i believe over time they have been conditioned to chew up dextrose/sugars as their preference over maltose, so that is another reason that I do it this way. Let the yeast go for the maltose first, then increase the temp and get that entire yeast population back in suspension with increased metabolism feeding on sugar and some residual maltose in a higher temp environment.

I have had belgian strains poop out on me early in big beers when the starting gravity was quite high...the incremental additions help ease this issue.

Houblon · 11-11-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by permo

I know for a fact that I get better attenuation when I add the sugar incrementally and raise the fermentation temp. <snip>
I have had belgian strains poop out on me early in big beers when the starting gravity was quite high...the incremental additions help ease this issue.

Let me ask how many Belgian style beers have you brewed?
total number?
how many with sugar in boil?
how many sugar in fermentor?

what was percentage of grain to sugar?
My high gravity w/suagr average 14-17% and never have attenuation problems, when I read that the first thought is mash temps.

permo · 11-11-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houblon

Let me ask how many Belgian stayle beers have you brewed?
total number?
how many with sugar in boil?
how many sugar in fermentor?

what was percentage of grain to sugar?
My high gravity w/suagr average 14-17% and never have attenuation problems, when I read the first thought is mash temps.

7 total beers
2 with sugar in the boil
5 with incremental
never more than %15 sugar

The incremental ones have always finished drier than the boil added counterparts.

Houblon · 11-11-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by permo

7 total beers
.

Ok so out of 7 you feel you understand yeast & brewing?

Little advice, keep an open mind and always question the "statu quo".
Do your own test using basic standards & controls.

Take a number

.