The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Exploring "no chill" brewing

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2009, 04:39 PM   #51
Saccharomyces
Be good to your yeast...
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Saccharomyces's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pflugerville, Texas
Posts: 5,443
Liked 77 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathweed View Post
I myself will probably be selfish with my results and only share with myself, SWMBO, and anyone that wants to come over and pour one off tap
Oooh oooh that sounds worth the drive from P-ville. I promise a full review.
__________________
[How to Calculate Mash Efficiency | Do I Need a Yeast Starter? | My Ghetto Fermentation Chamber | Twitter | 6 Gal. HDPE Fermenters | Slanting Yeast | No Sparge Brewing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperbrew
big brother only monitors facebook and untappd
Saccharomyces is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2009, 05:20 PM   #52
no-chiller
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1
Default No-issues with No-chilling

Hello all, Im in Australia and No-Chill also, I personally have had no issues no-chilling and not had an infection due to it after 10 AG batches, for myself, I find it to be quite convenient as I am really in no hurry to get it down to temp and pitch yeast, also, I usually brew 1 batch one day and another batch another day and once at ambient temp, I put in my Fermentation fridge to bring down to ferment temp of 18degrees C. I then can pour both no-chilled brews into there carboys, pitch yeast and put both batches in to ferment at the same time(fridge holds 2 carboys) at the same temperature.

Another plus for it, is that you can have your no-chill cube ready to go at the right time that your yeast starter is ready to be pitched, just pour into carboy and pitch yeast, no guessing.. Some fellow brewers over here have stored there no-chill cubes for months at a time with no ill effects, that said, they probably shouldnt be stored at excessive temperatures, but for myself, I usually am pitching my yeast within 7 days.. There are a few Suppliers over here that sell the exact same thing as FWK(fresh wort kits) for about $40Aus, it gives brewers that want to try AG beer an opportunity to do so without having to actually brew it, just pour into fermenter and pitch yeast... Check out this link for some info Shop Online - CraftBrewer

The other consideration with no-chilling, is your hopping schedule, because the wort is at very hot temperatures for longer, the chances for your later flavour/aroma additions actually becoming bittering additions is more, due to the hops being in contact with hot wort for longer.. To counteract this, I did my bittering addition(90min boil) at 45min and the flavour addition(@ 10min) goes into the cube before draining the hot wort into it, I then get my aroma profile by dry-hopping in the cube after 7days of fermentation..

Yesterday, I used a 250micron hop-sock for the first time in my boil and now will maybe have to go back to normal hop additions as all the hop matter is contained within the hopsock and is stopped from entering the cube and thus causing more bitterness from being exposed to the hot wort for an extended period..

And in my opinion from deathweeds question on AussieHomeBrewer, I dont see an issue with storing for extended periods at room temperature(with good sanitation and squeezing the air out of the cube) or if you have the space, couldnt see an issue with refridgeration of the cube.. Alot of guys over here can have up to 10 cubes waiting to be fermented, just keeping on top I guess and less chances of running out of beer..

__________________
no-chiller is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 03:01 AM   #53
de_ronde
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no-chiller View Post
Hello all, Im in Australia and No-Chill also, I personally have had no issues no-chilling and not had an infection due to it after 10 AG batches
Cheers and thanks for the info! Welcome to HBT!
__________________
de_ronde is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 03:28 AM   #54
McKBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
McKBrew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 8,292
Liked 30 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Thanks to the Aussie for chiming in. Great information.

__________________

Make Beer, Not War.

McKBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 07:55 AM   #55
Fatgodzilla
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Fatgodzilla's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tuross Head, Australia
Posts: 157
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
No-Chill Critics

Some research into the no-chill method will bring up some criticism of the method. Arguments against include
- Beer haziness
- Problems with long term beer stability
- Loss of hop aroma
- Increased bitterness
- Leeching plastic
- DMS production
- And in the extreme the risk of botulism (a deadly anaerobic bacteria)

I have not encountered any of these problems in the beer I have made nor have members of the Illawarra Brewers Union who employ the method almost exclusively.
I was getting worried Round 2 of the Great Botulisn debate was going to erupt !

G'day again brewers! For any noobies to the no-chill debate, relax, have a beer and decide, very simply, will it be easier for you to employ no-chill ? If yes, do it. If not, don't.

As said in THE other thread, I'm a member of the Illawarra Brewers Union that seemingly popularised no-chill cubing. (go to our website for photos). I got into AG at the same time I joined the IBUs & I saw how the boys did it and assumed that's how everyone did it ! We have professional brewers and some of the most awarded home brewers in Australia in the club and I've never heard any of the nay saying dribble some of you ferals are sprouting against no chill. Was it Pol who said the biggest nay sayers have never no chilled ?

This aint an overnight thing in Australia, but a tried and tested process.

To get back to Deadwood's original quey here and on AHB, store the cube sensibly and you'll have no worries. Best out of sunlight, in a cool location if possible and it should last for ages. Not that you want to keep it for ages, for goodness sake wort in a cube is wasted ... ferment the bugger and enjoy the brew. A few months, no worries !

Get on with it lads and don't go kissing an Mexicans any time soon !


PS - did I tell you the IBUs are conditioning real ale in the same types of plastic cubes and serving same through hand pumps ! True .. go to our website for photos ! Bloody good things those cubes.. no Aussie boy should be without one !
__________________
Beer, it isn't everything, but it'll do till I get everything.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.—Mark Twain

Last edited by Fatgodzilla; 05-05-2009 at 07:59 AM. Reason: poor spelling & the PS
Fatgodzilla is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 08:19 AM   #56
Flattop
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 122
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Fatgodzilla is right, cubing is great, i don't know if you guys know what a wine cask is but Aussie's invented that too, ohh and refrigeration and the rotating clothesline oh and the lawnmower.... but then again we do stuff like that...
For ppl who want to believe that beer is only made one way... ok that's cool
Some ppl crush grapes with their feet and some use machines... they both make wine..
(no offense meant, i just mean there are other ways to do stuff)
I'm sure that they continue to pump out high quality brews... great!
That doesn't mean we can't if we cube.... are they worse, i don't know....
Are they good brews? YES!
This process is not bleeding edge, it's tried and true, it works and as you guys haven't heard of the great Aussie botulism infection of 2008/2009 i guess it hasn't killed anyone yet. But we don't brew close to sneezing pigs.....
I've pumped out 4 cubes in the last month, none have been stored long term as i don't have that much beer left after summer had to crank up production.
I moved to all grain when i understood how simple it was
I brew with my grain in a bag :0 after mash i lift the bag out, no sparge, boil and add hops and i drain into a cube.... I can pitch when i want and i use a plastic fermenter with plastic wrap and a rubber band instead of an airlock... equally effective..
Simple setup, makes good beer.... now if i can talk the missus into making kebabs life would be almost perfect...

__________________
Flattop is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 11:52 AM   #57
The Pol
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,616
Liked 51 Times on 48 Posts

Default

Gday mate!

No chill is great. I have a FULL writeup and photos coming to Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources this month. Mine is currently kegged and even three weeks after pitching yeast, it is one of my tastiest beers.

Myself and another HBT memeber are going to brew identical brews on identical systems. No Chill one, whirlpool IC chill the other, and send to a BJCP judge to have them judged, to get some feedback.

I am selling my glass 6.5 gal. carboy and IC...

__________________
The Pol is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:47 PM   #58
Dr_Deathweed
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dr_Deathweed's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bryan, Texas
Posts: 2,407
Liked 26 Times on 20 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Keeping up with the thread on aussiehomebrewer.com, here is a link to one of their original discussions on this topic:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9354

And here is a reply about botulism from an angle i did not even think about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirsty Boy
I think you can take heart with the Botulism argument - in the fact that at high temperatures the HDPE is quite permeable to oxygen. One of the reasons to squeeze out the air.. its getting quite enough oxygen contact through the material of the cube, without extra from the headspace. All you need to do is limit it a bit when the wort is hot enough for your traditional Hot Side Aeration to occur - As the wort cools down enough to actually absorb 02, the hdpe is still so permeable to the gas that the wort is far far from anerobic enough to be an issue.

I don't have figures to back this up (I am in the research phase of obtaining them)... but lets put it this way. Would you have a botulism concern if you put your hot wort into an open Carboy filled to the top (heated so it didn't shatter) closed with a bit of tinfoil?? Not sealed, just loose like a starter. I'm guessing no-body would have issue with that.

But - how much oxygen is actually making it through the couple of square inches of surface wort? None through the sides because glass is not permeable. Transfer rates of gas through liquid interfaces are pretty low without agitation. But I still doubt anyone would worry. Whether they should or not is a different question.

Now compare that to a sealed cube - sure, there is no actual liquid to air interface... but you have better than a square meter of surface area, which is Atransmitting oxygen at 58cc per square meter per 24hrs per mm of thickness at 25°C - At 35°C this rises to 111cc. Who knows at higher temps. After a couple of days at 25°C - a standard cube might as well be in an open bucket from an oxygen levels perspective. Its saturated. And our cube has had a flying head start at higher temperatures while it cools down.

If anyone has better transfer rate figures, or can tell me what the transfer rate of oxygen across an undisturbed liquid/gas interface might be. That would be great. I am also hunting the levels of oxygen needed to inhibit Botulism spores.

I strongly suspect though I don't know for sure - that your sealed cube is actually as safe or safer than an open bucket made out of glass or stainless would be.


It was also mentioned over there that purging with CO2 is pretty pointless since their method involves squeezing all the free air out while the cube is hot and the plastic malleable. This allows pasteurization of all surfaces while the wort is still above 180 F, and minimal chance of any spoilage.

I will do some reading about using campden or other preservitives, but as of now they are looking unessecary.

From all this information, all doubts about this project are rapidly dissipating, and I look forward to doing my first no chill in a couple days!
__________________

"Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence." - Napoleon Bonaparte
“An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools.” - Ernest Hemingway

Fermentation CabinetAdding Faucets to a TowerDIY HopbackPortable Kegerator

Dr_Deathweed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 01:20 PM   #59
Pangea
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 325
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

I just saw the title to this thread "no chill brewing". Is this the opposite of Coors Light "frost brewed"?

__________________
Pangea is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 01:29 PM   #60
Saccharomyces
Be good to your yeast...
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Saccharomyces's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pflugerville, Texas
Posts: 5,443
Liked 77 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangea View Post
I just saw the title to this thread "no chill brewing". Is this the opposite of Coors Light "frost brewed"?
ROFL..
__________________
[How to Calculate Mash Efficiency | Do I Need a Yeast Starter? | My Ghetto Fermentation Chamber | Twitter | 6 Gal. HDPE Fermenters | Slanting Yeast | No Sparge Brewing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperbrew
big brother only monitors facebook and untappd
Saccharomyces is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"American" or "Imperial" Oatmeal Stout Recipe: Critiques please! cladinshadows Recipes/Ingredients 4 01-04-2012 10:21 PM
Small Scale Commerical Brewing (600gal/mo) on "Beer Budget" GuateBrewer All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 11-02-2010 12:46 PM
"Video Surveillance on the Fly" or "Urine trouble now mister!" Tenchiro Debate Forum 1 05-23-2009 06:33 PM
NPR Fans: "The Science of Brewing" on Talk of the Nation tomorrow 2-3pm EDT tmoney1224 General Beer Discussion 37 05-21-2008 12:06 AM
Miller "Chill" casper0074 General Beer Discussion 5 09-30-2007 05:16 PM