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Old 10-08-2009, 02:02 AM   #581
The Pol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal2814 View Post
Like you've always said, go with what works for you. You using a heckuva large ice maker or buying bags to get that much ice?
We have a dedicated ice maker that can produce almost 30 lbs daily.

It was fun to see it work tonight, I have always strived for a closed system
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:11 PM   #582
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I am wondering if I should dare to use 5kg of 2L German Pilsener malt for my next batch (6 gal) or go with 3L Pale Ale malt....

So what do you say???

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:00 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerBraumeister View Post
I am wondering if I should dare to use 5kg of 2L German Pilsener malt for my next batch (6 gal) or go with 3L Pale Ale malt....

So what do you say???
I want to get some pictures to post before I put it in the no chill results thread, but I just did a batch going out of my way to get DMS and failed. I did an all-pislner-malt (don't remember the exact L but it was 5L or less) beer fermented with Wyeast 2112 (so I could ferment warm) and let it chill outside overnight (low was 55F). The kicker was my boil time: 45 minutes. I lost almost an entire gallon of total volume in that 45 minutes but I can detect no DMS. I forget the exact brand of malt but the LHBS guy said it was high quality. It had W's all over the bag. Wyermann maybe? I can't vouch for other brands but whatever that company is doing to their malt, it's enough to not worry about.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:05 PM   #584
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I'm doing my first batch of no-chill this weekend. I'll be doing it side by side with a chilled version to compare. I'll take to our next brewclub meeting and get the BJCP guys input on a blind taste-test and see what they come up with.

Doing a SMaSH with pale malt only (Pilsner was too expensive) to give the DMS the biggest chance of coming through. I'm betting it's all a big giant myth.

Will post results as soon as I get them

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Old 10-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #585
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I tasted some early results from my Westmalle Extra clone which was 100% Castle Pils malt. I did a robust 90min boil and made a 2L RWS with 3787. Got damn near my TG at 1.006, 87% AA. Absolutely no off flavors that myself or anyone else tasted. I'm pretty pysched with the results and look forward to continuing this process.

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Old 10-16-2009, 05:28 PM   #586
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Finished the no chill batch last saturday and the chilled version last night. Due to an equipment failure during the nochill version i had to dump all the trub from the chilled version into the fermentor just to try make it fair again.

Not gonna be a thorough test at all but it will be interesting to get a few blind taste test victims feedback.

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Old 10-16-2009, 05:36 PM   #587
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Glad to see people are still converting/experimenting with this. Nice to see some favorable resutls.

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Old 10-18-2009, 03:26 AM   #588
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Default DMS - Difference between Pilsner and Pale

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmYourself View Post
Doing a SMaSH with pale malt only (Pilsner was too expensive) to give the DMS the biggest chance of coming through. I'm betting it's all a big giant myth.
I just brewed a German Pils as well; now in WinPak awaiting a Munich Dunkel brew tomorrow so I can ferment them together in the same fridge using the same temps for primary, secondary, fining, etc.

DMS is NOT a problem with PALE Malt. It can be with LAGER/PILSNER malts, however. The difference is the temperature they are kilned at. The reason pale malt is a darker lovibond than Pilsner is b/c it is kilned at a higher temperature. At that higher temperature the precursor of DMS, SMM (s-methymethionine which converts to DMS in the boil) is volatized away and the residual left is so low that any DMS produced in the boil is below the flavor threshold.

Lager/Pilsner malt at around 2 Lovibond is kilned at a low enough temp that the SMM remains...thus the DMS issue for beers using it.

One way to handle it is to just use pale malt (for your lagers instead of German, UK, or Belgian Pils/Lager malt). End of problem.

For those choosing to use Pilsner/Lager malt solutions you can use include:

- Boil over 90 minutes (the half-life of DMS in the boil is 35 minutes) so a longer boil reduces DMS, volatizing more of it.

- TRADITIONALISTS: Cool down the wort as quickly as possible because while in the whirlpool the temperature is high enough to continue to produce DMS, which without the boil and evaporation to volatize and remove it, it goes back into the wort.

- Add a piece of copper pipe to the boil kettle or two copper pennies (prior to Dec. 1982 - 95% copper then, and 5% zinc. After that essentially the inverse is used). Many sources believe the contact with coppper converts the sulfur to a benign compound. The zinc is good for yeast during fermentation as well.

- Ferment above 46*F

- Use yeasts that produce less DMS

- Avoid whole hops for dry-hopping. They can add up to 15 ppm by themselves. No problem with pellets, plugs or iso-acids in this regard.

-NO CHILL: Instead of going directly from kettle to WinPak (and thus potentially allowing DMS to continue to form in the wort over 176*F), simply cool the wort to 175*F (takes 2 minutes if that with a IC), whirlpool, let sit for 20 minutes and THEN transfer to Winpak eliminating most of the hot break while essentially eliminating the DMS production).

Pasteurization occurs at 140*F. One minute at 140* gives one PU (Pasteurization Unit). At 175*F you have approximately 5 PUs, which is the range commonly used by most craftbrewers. I.e., bacteria should not be a problem.

I PBW the WinPaks after use; rinse thoroughly, use StarSan (make sure pH is below 3 to be effective) and haven't had any problems so far. Last Dusseldorf Alt I made using 70% German Pils malt using the above approach. It sat in a WinPak for a month at room temperature before I could get to it. Absolutely no problems with bacteria. I do wort stability tests at transfer to Winpak and when pitching. No problems. Clear as a bell, smells great, tastes better.

Just one guys' thoughts and current approach. May buy an ice machine yet!

Back to Munich Dunkel set-up.

BTW, the sources for all of the above are Briggs, Boulton, Lewis, Fix, Noonan, Hornsey, Bamforth, Priest, Miller, Palmer, DeClerck, Goldammer, Hardwick, Korzonas, etc. I didn't make any of this up. These are the latest professional brewing tomes.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:50 AM   #589
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I am so intrigued by this. For some reason I have ignored this thread for the months I have been on HBT, but read the whole thing today.

I think this will really be the ticket for winter brewing - its not really so cold here in Va, but avoiding 45 minutes of messing about with cold water and hoses, even if its just in the 30's, seems good to me.

Also, since I'm pretty much just an APA/IPA brewer, I've been satisfied with dry yeast and like the simplicity. However I think that the convenience of RWS will embolden me to dabble in various liquid yeasts.

As I started reading, I was initially resistant to the differences in hop utilization compared to 'normal' chilling, so I was wondering if a hybrid approach, knocking the temp down to 160, would be worthwhile. But after reading all of this and other threads, considering the reduced sanitation and the extra hassle, I've tabled that objection.

I will order the 6.5 gal Winpack tonight - I plan to ferment directly in the NC container like Pol does (or did before he made his closed loop system).

I just have to say, thanks to all you intrepid and energetic brewers and forum contributors. Long live the internet!

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Old 10-19-2009, 01:54 AM   #590
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I will still no chill. Actually adding to my fermentors and ONLY using HDPE for them. I have the ability to chill and no chill with my system now... and I like the fact that I have a choice.

No chill works, as I type I am drinking my fabulous no chill Oktoberfest.

I am still here, but yes I have added closed system cooling to my current rig

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