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Old 05-09-2009, 03:10 AM   #101
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The Food safety of a higher gravity, higher IBU wort was considered a side benefit but we mainly relied on the heat of the wort over a long period of time for food saftey .

Also the higher concentration meant the customer could carry a package that was easy to manage. Orginaly we packaged in bag in box Wine bladders but scuttled that idea after the bladders broke the boxes we packed them in and started with Food grade HDPE cubes that we already sold Wholesale as racking vessels,that where easier to fill also.

Barth-Hass the biggest Hop broker and Processor in the World has several patents regarding the Antimicriobial Effects of hop extracts including one titled Antimicrobial activity of hops extract against Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile and Helicobacter pylori with

Antimicrobial activity of hops extract against Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile and Helicobacter pylori - Patent 6251461

Botanix also sells hop products to the food processing industry that utilize the Antimicrobial effects of hops .

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Old 05-09-2009, 02:45 PM   #102
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now if i can talk the missus into making kebabs life would be almost perfect...
Is “making kabobs” an Aussie euphemism for something naughty?
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:05 PM   #103
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2. This cube from Northern Brewer is 5 gallons. Do you think it would actually hold 5.5?
http://www.northernbrewer.com/pics/fullsize/cubes3.jpg
Those are cubitainers and they won’t work for this application. Or, at least, they are not the HDPE cubes being discussed. If you’ll look real closely at the upper left corner of the largest cube on the pic, you see it says LDPE.

I actually use them for something entirely different. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/index15.html#post1300674

For the HDPE cubes there is US Plastics… then there’s this company Plastic Jugs, HDPE Utility Jugs with Spigots
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:56 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by matthendry View Post
The Food safety of a higher gravity, higher IBU wort was considered a side benefit but we mainly relied on the heat of the wort over a long period of time for food saftey .

Also the higher concentration meant the customer could carry a package that was easy to manage. Orginaly we packaged in bag in box Wine bladders but scuttled that idea after the bladders broke the boxes we packed them in and started with Food grade HDPE cubes that we already sold Wholesale as racking vessels,that where easier to fill also.

Barth-Hass the biggest Hop broker and Processor in the World has several patents regarding the Antimicriobial Effects of hop extracts including one titled Antimicrobial activity of hops extract against Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile and Helicobacter pylori with

Antimicrobial activity of hops extract against Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile and Helicobacter pylori - Patent 6251461

Botanix also sells hop products to the food processing industry that utilize the Antimicrobial effects of hops .

paper01
Ok good, I am glad someone out there backed up the source on antimicrobial properties on hops against C. botulinum that I put in the OP. Also thanks for all your good information!
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:52 PM   #105
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I'm making a 8 gal batch. Forgetting the whole chill/no chill pro's and cons does anyone have a good reason why I couldn't use 2 cleaned and sanitized corny kegs as the no chill containers? After cooling overnight I would remove the gas in posts and attach a blow off tubes to each keg, pop the lids, pitch the yeast, replace the lids and ferment in them as well.

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Old 05-11-2009, 04:11 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by rcrabb22 View Post
I'm making a 8 gal batch. Forgetting the whole chill/no chill pro's and cons does anyone have a good reason why I couldn't use 2 cleaned and sanitized corny kegs as the no chill containers? After cooling overnight I would remove the gas in posts and attach a blow off tubes to each keg, pop the lids, pitch the yeast, replace the lids and ferment in them as well.
The only thing that comes to mind, is vaccuum. Dunno if it is a problem, but there is A LOT of vaccuum generated when the wort/headspace shrinks
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #107
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The only thing that comes to mind, is vaccuum. Dunno if it is a problem, but there is A LOT of vaccuum generated when the wort/headspace shrinks
So what happens to the plastic containers during this? Do they collapse in some?
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:33 PM   #108
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So what happens to the plastic containers during this? Do they collapse in some?
YUP, this is why HDPE is great, it has great heat handling and is flexibe, the sides collapse in an inch on mine.

This method will cause an ALE PAIL to collapse in on itself as witnessed by another HBTer.
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:36 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by rcrabb22 View Post
I'm making a 8 gal batch. Forgetting the whole chill/no chill pro's and cons does anyone have a good reason why I couldn't use 2 cleaned and sanitized corny kegs as the no chill containers? After cooling overnight I would remove the gas in posts and attach a blow off tubes to each keg, pop the lids, pitch the yeast, replace the lids and ferment in them as well.


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The only thing that comes to mind, is vaccuum. Dunno if it is a problem, but there is A LOT of vaccuum generated when the wort/headspace shrinks

2 ideas, one would be to put some pressure on the keg while it is hot to compensate for cooling vacuum. How much would be a best guess..., not sure this is a good idea

or 2nd, I have a sanitary air filter. I could put the blow off tube on from the get/go with the air filter and keep the pressure in the keg equalized.

Opps. have to buy a 2nd filter for the 2nd keg
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:59 PM   #110
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Ok good, I am glad someone out there backed up the source on antimicrobial properties on hops against C. botulinum that I put in the OP. Also thanks for all your good information!
Yeah, that's good information. I knew hops were a preservative, but I thought that a lot of their ability to stop botulism was in the fact that the lower the ph of the beer when you use sufficient quantities. This patent makes it seem like any amount of hops that you can taste will be more then necessary to prevent microbial growth.

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Originally Posted by rcrabb22 View Post
2 ideas, one would be to put some pressure on the keg while it is hot to compensate for cooling vacuum. How much would be a best guess..., not sure this is a good idea

or 2nd, I have a sanitary air filter. I could put the blow off tube on from the get/go with the air filter and keep the pressure in the keg equalized.

Opps. have to buy a 2nd filter for the 2nd keg
If you put pressure into the keg then when the vacuum is created won't the co2 go into solution? Also, not sure about exposing the wort to air as it cools, even with a filter on....I would say just buy a couple of the US plastics containers. That's what I am planning on doing.
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Then that means dumping your beer because you think it's bad is tantamount to abortion! And as Big Kahuna says, drinking a beer too soon is tatamount to beer pedophilia...
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