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Old 10-27-2010, 01:20 AM   #1
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Default Experiment idea... No boil AG beer???

Ok, so I have been lacking in brewing lately due to my crazy school schedule. one of my classes is a technical research course where I am doing a paper on "green" proprietary technology in brewing and its ability to increase profits for breweries. So I have been reading alot of energy waste in breweries. This got me thinking...

According the the brewiki and several other sources, the wort boil is mainly for extraction of AA from hops as well as the flavor/aroma compounds. other reasons include reduction of DMS and proteins, BUT this is only very necessary for certain types of beers... darker ales and strong flavored ales have a higher DMS threshold when it comes to perception.

So here is what I am proposing. I use a no sparge RIMs setup, temperature controlled with my toolbox.

What if: I mash in the grist with the exact water needed to collect my 5 gallons, after absorbtion and deadspace.

In a coffee mug, cover my bittering hops with boiling water for 5 minutes and add to the mash.

Raise to mash out temp and add my aroma hops and recirc for 10 minutes.

The wort coming out of my mashtun is crystal clear after recirc/heating with my RIMs. I would drain through my CFC and right into the fermenter. Then dry hop 7 days in.

Post fermentation I would filter for chill haze and other proteins not removed/destroyed at boil.

My initial thought on recipes would be an ESB, or maybe a double ESB (ala LH Chainsaw)

I know I know.. I will probably get totally flamed for this, but I thought it would be worth trying to see if a quality beer can be made with a reduction in energy costs. If it would work on a small scale, could be modified for larger scale brewing as well.

Thoughts appreciated - be gentle (I just came up with this idea 15 minutes ago... not too much thought put into it)

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:28 AM   #2
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Have you heard of Lactobacillus? Barley is lousy with Lactobacillus, Pediococcus, and probably some Acetobacteria too. You'd probably end up making a very sour vinegar.

Although, if you pasteurized the wort first, that would probably not be an issue.

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:28 AM   #3
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Also for those screaming about contamination (just thought of this as a was smoking after the first post). pitching a big starter and sanitizing procedures should take care of most.

This is ultimately for a beer that would consumed quick and young.

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:30 AM   #4
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Nateo - I wasn't thinking it would be around long enough for something like that... but I understand where ur coming from.

I don't know what it would take to kill that, mayne a higher mashout temp.. or draining and do a sanitizing recirc at 180 for 10 or 15?

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:34 AM   #5
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Flash pasteurization happens at 160F and 165F, so I think mashout would kill most of the spoilage bugs.

If you make it, I'd be interested to know how it comes out.

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:48 AM   #6
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Yeah, I might have to try this sometime soon. I have cut my AG time down to 3-3.5 hours with my setup, this might make it even quicker. 1.5 hours including cleanup - I might brew every day

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:53 AM   #7
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Aside from contamination issues DMS will be your other big issue. It actually does have a relatively low threshold before showing up in the taste of your beer. I suspect it would dominate a brew you didn't boil. But could be worth a shot.

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Old 10-27-2010, 02:13 AM   #8
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I really want to believe that the mash pasteurizes the wort but I'm just not 100% sure. Therefore, I think boiling for 10 minutes is kinda necessary.

And with no boil, do you think there might be problems with haze because you don't get a hot break?

And finally, I don't think your hop method will get the bitterness required. I don't know the exact minimum temp for isomerization to occur, but I believe it's in the 170s.

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Old 10-27-2010, 02:33 AM   #9
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Hop oil.

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Old 10-27-2010, 02:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanzimonson View Post
I really want to believe that the mash pasteurizes the wort but I'm just not 100% sure. Therefore, I think boiling for 10 minutes is kinda necessary.
After quick google search many sources are saying that beer is pasteurized at 160 degrees F. This would be handled at the mashout phase since I will raise the temp to 170 for 10-15 minutes as I usually do when mashout recirc is happening.

Quote:
And with no boil, do you think there might be problems with haze because you don't get a hot break?
I thought about this and I don't really have an answer, but I thought I would try it first and if there is the subsequent batch would be filtered to reduce. I will also be adding gelatin to help clear before kegging.

Quote:
And finally, I don't think your hop method will get the bitterness required. I don't know the exact minimum temp for isomerization to occur, but I believe it's in the 170s.
The biggest issue I thought of was the bittering hops, these will be steeped in boiling water and then added to the mash. I think that should be enough to get the effect... if not it is something I would have to play with... Maybe a psuedo decoction with run off during the recirc and then add back in.
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